Time to sort it out

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tomogull
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Time to sort it out

Post by tomogull » 30 Apr 2017, 16:17

At the beginning of the season, I posted something on the lines of 'with the off the field problems, all we can hope for is that Nicho improves our position in the league'. I had in mind an extra 10 points, not just two, but taking into account all that he and the playeres have had to contend with, he has done okay-ish in my view. What the table does show, though, is that our goal difference is -7 compared with -22 last season which suggests we've been a harder team to beat. Our worst defeat was away to Eastleigh - 3 - 0 - and I seem to remember those who were at that game said the scoreline flattered Eastleigh. Our goals against are 61 compared with 76 last season when we had Angus and Nathan Smith at the centre of defence. The 61 includes the 9 goals conceded in the two crazy games against FRG. Without those, our 'goals against' compare favourably with teams much further up the table. So I very much hope that Nicho will be here next season to continue the re-building process.

Of the players, I would go along with Arcadia's list, including Sam Chaney who I think has got something about him, but I wouldn't include Lathrope as, sadly, he is not the player he was. I would add Rowe-Turner (who has played very well since Christmas), Anderson (who has formed a good partnership with McGinty, even though they are both left footed which isn't ideal) and Gallifuoco. Don't forget, we are talking about a squad of 17 or 18 players. My opinion is that with the sort of playing budget we're expecting the manager to be given, he won't be able to bring in more accomplished players than most of those already at the club. We have to be realistic - we are not going to get a promotion side overnight but hopefully slowly build on what we've got. My feeling is that with the addition of three or four players - obviously a back-up 'keeper, a striker, an experienced player with leadersihp qualities and maybe a midfield playmaker, we could start to see the team going places.

I'm very much against this 'starting from scratch' idea. We'll end up with another batch of hopeless misfits like Tonge, Fisher, Heslop, Oastler, Ajala, Tyrone Marsh, Harding, Briscoe, Fairhurst - ad nauseum. And before Merse labels me a cheerleader or rose-tinter or other derogatory term he can dream up just because my views do not concur with his rigid opinions, my opinions, and other forum posters' opinions, are just as valid as his - in fact, I suspect that for many of us, our views are more valid than his because we have seen more of United's matches this season.

However, all this is simply conjecture because players' agents will be looking to get the best deals for their players so who turns up at Plainmoor next season is a bit of a lottery.


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Post by merse btpir » 30 Apr 2017, 16:33

tomogull wrote:
30 Apr 2017, 16:17
I'm very much against this 'starting from scratch' idea. We'll end up with another batch of hopeless misfits like Tonge, Fisher, Heslop, Oastler, Ajala, Tyrone Marsh, Harding, Briscoe, Fairhurst - ad nauseum. And before Merse labels me a cheerleader or rose-tinter or other derogatory term he can dream up just because my views do not concur with his rigid opinions, my opinions, and other forum posters' opinions, are just as valid as his - in fact, I suspect that for many of us, our views are more valid than his because we have seen more of United's matches this season.
However, all this is simply conjecture because players' agents will be looking to get the best deals for their players so who turns up at Plainmoor next season is a bit of a lottery.
Of course your opinions are as valid as anybody's but your last paragraph is the most pertinent and it is down to where any of those players can best secure a deal for next season. Don't forget that Keating might just as likely return to Ireland and play out the rest of the domestic season there (it end around the end of October I believe)

The very nature on non-league football and it's contracts dictate that the scenario of putting a fresh squad together each summer is the norm rather than the exception and you can bet your bottom dollar that the owners will not want to be paying wages to anybody before they think they really need to. Now that may differ strongly from your view of what they should be doing, but I'd be very surprised if they want to do it any other way.

The other consideration to take into account is that it is highly unlikely that any player on the books has been engaged to talk about another contract for the simple reason that the manager has no idea as to whether he will be here or not ~ and judging by the messages he was sending out for others to do his complaining for him a few weeks ago then that seems rather unlikely too.

Do people really want a back four comprised almost entirely of left footers, a goalkeeper who is getting more haphazard by the month; a squad that lacks a real leader and a strike force comprising entirely of loan/short term contract players, a soldier of fortune here to make a name for himself and who might well end up making it elsewhere together with a proven striker who was so out of favour for much of the season he was ignored?


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Post by jono_Gull209 » 30 Apr 2017, 17:17

How the hell can you not consider Luke Young? Verma isn't a bad player either. I'd definitely keep those two plus: Sparkles, Williams, Keating.

Out of the back four. LRT has actually improved immensely in the latter games, but does have question marks. The same for GG. Anderson looks clumsy. I think McGinty has the edge.

Brendan Moore is prone to errors but anyone who has actually watched us this season will know he can pull of some miraculous saves when the 4 in front of him are nowhere to be seen. I'd keep him.


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Post by tomogull » 30 Apr 2017, 17:18

merse btpir wrote:
30 Apr 2017, 16:33
a goalkeeper who is getting more haphazard by the month;
I hadn't intended posting again on this thread - I'd had my say and that was it! But I really can't let you get away with your criticism, not only on this thread but on other threads, of Brendan Moore. I think he is the best keeper we have had since Bobby Olejnik and I would be more than happy to see him between the sticks next season. True - his distribution is not the greatest (much better when he is able to throw the ball out) but to say that he is getting more haphazard by the month is just not fair.

It can't have helped his progress to have been the only keeper on the books for half the season and there's been no mention of a goalkeeper coach to help him. He has made a few errors over the season, but then all keepers do. But overall he has saved the Gulls from defeat, or heavier defeat, on many occasions.


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Post by portugull » 30 Apr 2017, 17:30

The 7 players I would like to see next season are;
Luke Young. Loves Devon, loves Torquay United.
Sean McGinty. Big, strong and competitive.
Dan Sparkes. Will only get better.
Brett Willams. Lets face it his goals kept us up.Unorthordox player but abetter player with Keating alongside.
Aman Verma. Very versatile and committed.
Ruairi Keating.Hope he gets a contract as he deserves one.
Brendan Moore. Great shot stopper albeit sometimes let down by his decision making.

The 3 players who deserve a contract for their improvement and 100% effort.
Snoop
GG
Anderson

To improve the squad would not retain;
Courtney Richards. Lovely guy but just cannot pass the ball.
Damon Lathrope. Too injury prone
Sam Chaney. Clearly has ability but too light weight for this League.
Shaun Harrad. Huge experience but very slow now.
Ben Gerring. Just not good enough.

Loan Players.
Jamie Reid. The problem with Jamie is the final ball, no end product. Does have talent. Very frustrating.
Jordan Lee. Well would be fantastic if Bournemouth would loan him to us for the whole of next season. No chance? Well he has struck up a big friendship with Ruairi Keating so just an outside chance we might get him on loan.

The other players in the squad are Nicho, Hancox and Duke.

Seen quite a few players this season in the 20 League games I have attended who I would like to see in a United shirt but can we afford them? All depends on the budget.


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Post by forevertufc » 30 Apr 2017, 17:47

arcadia wrote:
30 Apr 2017, 15:34

The team has been short on confidence all season. The recent games we have seen the players motivated, mid-season we had no centre- half ,no fullbacks and the left back had lost his confidence altogether. There was no pace either but Lee has provided this along with Keating and it makes a whole lot of difference. I went to Dover and everyone will tell you that we looked a good side but yes you can see the weaknesses.
Our keeper can be quality but his starting position is a lot to be desired and he needs to talk more and organize. If we got the back four sorted we would have a chance.
A decent Chairman would be asking why was Williams not fit earlier in the season as the last month he's looking a different player.
The main problem is attracting players with a bag of peanuts.
I also think the manager needs a someone to talk to about his substitutions as we have lost a lot of games, we should have got points from. Remember
'Leicester' it's a different ball game.......... if you believe your going to win and a lot of that comes from the bench.
I do not disagree with a lot of what you're saying here, I'm merely disagreeing with your opinion there's not a lot wrong with the current squad and with few additions we could see a promotion push, that's way off the scale wrong, I believe with a few good additions to the current squad, we could easily see our club achieve an upper end mid table finish for sure, but the sad fact for me is, I believe and not alone, as a club we're a country mile off a promotion push.

I think you're nailed on right about the full backs, I think Verma slotted in very well at right after Berry's injury the season before, this led to Nicho making a huge mistake in believing Verma could continue long term covering that position, at the start of this season just finished Verma was just awful at RB, L-R-T fitted the budget, Nichp knew him, a lazy signing, L-R-T had just come off the back of two successive relegations, what sort of player did nicho think he was going to get, whilst still not good enough for this level, L-R-T does however, deserve a great deal of credit, for the way he's improved during the season, the lad's clearly worked very hard.

Nailed on right about the pace as well, we had a lot of direct pace from the likes of Iffy Allen the season before, think Nicho had it in mind he'd get the width from Verma/L-R-T, come on, that was never going happen, the season before we did get width from Berry/Butler, but the loss of those two to replaced by the players mentioned, is like swapping a VITO for a Ford Ranger :whistle:

Have a great deal of sympathy with Moore, Moore there is no doubt he is right up there in terms of shot stopping with any keeper at this level, but he has a two fold problem, no real time keeper coaching, no other keeper in the squad to bounce off and train with, what do any of us expect.

The only bit I really do disagree with and you should know this, there is absolutely no magical formula to getting substitutions correct, an injury, a tiring player very simple, but in terms of a tactical change, doesn't matter who you are, or what level you manage at, you make a tactical change it's got a bit of guess work in it, and sometimes the need for a little bit of luck, the change works the manager is a genius, it blows up in his face, the guys an idiot, so who he going to talk to.

When I was coaching, personally used to subscribe to a lot of coaching material online, read a piece once written by Tony Pullis, where he talked about, he even with all his experience was still learning, and he talked about the need for coach's at all levels to refresh their knowledge and learn from what's gone right and wrong, etc. I'm sure Nicho is only to well aware of this, and something he'll develop as he grows in the game.


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Post by Plainmoor78 » 30 Apr 2017, 17:51

tomogull wrote:
30 Apr 2017, 16:17

We have to be realistic - we are not going to get a promotion side overnight but hopefully slowly build on what we've got.
The only way you can slowly build on what we've got is by offering multi season contracts and I can't see that happening. Any decent players we had playing for us this season will have attracted the attention of our rivals, if any of those should make a better offer then we lose those players.

Merse is right down where we are you literally have to start from scratch every season.

All that said we now have a director of recruitment, who in his short time here seems to already have benefitted the team via his reporting on our opponents. Whether he will be able to help whoever is manager to source better players I don't know. It would be interesting to know whether with Dave Hedges help Nico would have been more successful over the whole season.


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Post by forevertufc » 30 Apr 2017, 18:11

arcadia wrote:
30 Apr 2017, 15:45
Hectors view is interesting but Chaney will never improve on the bench, playing wide or playing in a struggling side.
Hector in my opinion is on right lines with Chaney, the view expressed that Chaney is some sort Sunday league pub player is harsh, and unfair, but the problem is, Chaney is way off the finished article even for the national league, and when your teams fighting to beat the drop, no manager has the luxury to put a player like that in the team.

The sentiment you've expressed many times about young players needing games to improve is correct, yes they do, but they need so much more than that, they need mentoring and good coaching along side games, other wise any technical or mentality flaws they might have will only be compounded not fixed by just playing games.

Chaney in my view does have potential, we saw his first cross into the box after he came on, it was inch perfect and the team nearly scored from it, his second just a few minutes later, hopelessly over hit, going out for a goal kick, and he is a tad lightweight, that to me isn't massive problem.

Think Chaney could well benefit from getting a development contract at a much bigger club, where he would get the help and coaching to adapt his game, making his slight frame less of an issue, and time to tidy up his technical ability, he'll never get that at TUFC, we don't have the time, the staff or the resource.


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Post by Zippy » 30 Apr 2017, 18:24

I would keep chaney, as for lathflop and rowe turnip and Richards they are not good enough. gerring will get the chop I reckon and hancox and harrod.


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Post by desperado » 30 Apr 2017, 21:11

Agree with Tomogulls post and some interesting stats re goals conceded, suggesting that some defeats could easily
have turned into points
We have a young team who are improving as individuals and as a team and we have to be patient as obviously
funds are not going to be made available for better players. 2 or 3 additions in key areas should see an improvement
to mid table or flirting with play offs. Some 'mental' coaching also needed , we must treat every opponent as if they
were top of the table. Moore is not a problem , I have seen 22 home games, not sure how many Merse has seen


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Post by tomogull » 01 May 2017, 12:05

forevertufc wrote:
30 Apr 2017, 18:11
Chaney in my view does have potential, we saw his first cross into the box after he came on, it was inch perfect and the team nearly scored from it, his second just a few minutes later, hopelessly over hit, going out for a goal kick, and he is a tad lightweight, that to me isn't massive problem.

Think Chaney could well benefit from getting a development contract at a much bigger club, where he would get the help and coaching to adapt his game, making his slight frame less of an issue, and time to tidy up his technical ability, he'll never get that at TUFC, we don't have the time, the staff or the resource.
I'm nodding my head in agreement with both Arcadia and Forever re Sam Chaney. He needs to play matches but his ideal position, I think, is where Luke Young plays and he isn't going to get many opportunities whilst arguably the best player at the club is fit. Last season, we played so-called Development Matches against local sides which at least gave fringe players, young players and triallists match practice. This season, we'd have trouble fielding a five-a-side Development side.

And yes - young Sam would beneflt from coaching at a bigger club which he won't get at Plainmoor. He reminds me of a scrawny lad, also a midfielder, from North Devon. I believe he was offered a short-term contract but Roy McFarland, then at Cambridge, recognised his potential and offered a 12 month contract. That player was Luke Guttridge who has gone on to a good career with lower league clubs and is currently in the Dagengham & Redbridge play-off team.


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Post by IanGull01 » 01 May 2017, 12:34



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Post by nickbrod » 01 May 2017, 12:44

To pick up on a couple of points made on this thread.
Sam Chaney: Did I dream I have read that he's the only player contracted for another season?
Brendan Moore: In the Braintree programme he made the following comments about his goalkeeping coach Kenny Griffiths: "Kenny has been great throughout the season and I speak to him almost every day. He puts me through drills that, because there isn't another goalie here at the moment, I wouldn't be able to do on my own. It helps to have someone who is a goalie themselves and he's able to pick up on things that maybe I wouldn't be able to."
Interestingly Brendan adds," The biggest improvements (in my game) have been with my communication and decision making, when to come for a cross and when to stay."
I'll leave it to others to agree or disagree!


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Post by Plainmoor78 » 01 May 2017, 16:42

I can't believe people are suggesting we need to keep the bulk of the squad and just a few additions here or there would produce a promotion challenging team.
Get real, this was possibly the worst side in our history. Leaving aside GI issues if we just go with more of the same we will be fighting relegation again next season and sooner or later we will fall through the trap door. I realize people are grateful to the side for avoiding relegation, but it hasnt been too long ago since the Sutton/Guisley debacle.

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Post by Southampton Gull » 01 May 2017, 17:01

I think the point you're missing is that GI won't invest enough to make starting afresh a viable proposition. Much better to try and keep the ones we know possess a little quality and support them with 'better' cheap options than this year.

Anyone holding out for significant investment in the playing squad is deluding themselves. A fresh start with a new group of players/management offers no guarantee of being any better and as history has shown us, we rarely improve through changing the personnel. The only time it happened was under Buckle who we all know had an exceptional budget to work with.
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