A thread for clarity

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Richinns
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A thread for clarity

Post by Richinns »

I know I am struggling following the many threads across the different forums - so perhaps we can have an overview on this thread?
Below is (from how I interpret what others have posted anyway!) what has recently been reported or/and suggested by several key players amongst the fanbase:

- Phillips (et al) used the period of discussions with TUST as a smokescreen whilst they covertly talked to representatives from TBY Council (laying the path for any takeover party to be able to access the freehold of Plainmoor).
- Masters was not the villain many thought during in this process and would have taken over the club had Phillips not hiked the price last minute.
- The deal for GI to complete the acquisition of Plainmoor is already in place and the next few months will just be a process of the Council and GI 'going through the required process’ to satisfy legislation.
- Soupdragon (who has an excellent knowledge of Local Government and Torbay Council) disputes the above suggesting of a done deal and suggests that it is likely it is only in its infancy currently.
- The Herald Express are in cahoots with GI and the Council regarding this deal hence their lack of reporting and investigation regarding the situation.
- There is the potential that many involved from the different parties (The Council, GI and possibly the HE) are masons who have significant standing over the situation.
- Regardless of the relegation outcome the club are already preparing to go part-time.


Sorry if I missed anything out and if those that are in the know feel they need to add anything to the list above please do so. It would be good if those with the most knowledge (SG, merse and soupdragon to name the major players) could perhaps comment to indicate if the overview I have gathered is accurate. Whilst I appreciate the current coming together of fans to try to face what is perceived as the devil it would be really helpful if a better overview is given on the current situation. Scary if this (or even some of it) is true as it look ludicrous on paper!
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Post by Dazza »

Yes I think Masters would like to take over the club at a time and a price of his calling.

Yes i think Soup Dragon is correct. Nothing is done and dusted I believe.

No the Herald Express are not in cahoots with anybody. They are just frightened of upsetting anybody- everybody. If you are running an organisation on a shoe string yes that's a valid stance. A seemingly weak newspaper is better than no newspaper.

Yes I think the PhillipsBoard did play TUST but maybe not that deliberately. Nor do I believe they were pro GI after early infatuation. I think they hoped for others to come forward but by then they had signed things they later wished they hadn't.

GI are likely to want to see the club go partially part time. It will save them some running costs and they dont understand or particularly like football.
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Post by merse btpir »

Richinns wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 17:12perhaps we can have an overview on this thread?
It would be good if those with the most knowledge (SG, merse and soupdragon to name the major players) could perhaps comment to indicate if the overview I have gathered is accurate. Whilst I appreciate the current coming together of fans to try to face what is perceived as the devil it would be really helpful if a better overview is given on the current situation.
That's rich coming from someone who commented on the Observer article: "No doubt we are in a the shitter right now but other than feeding Mr Merse's ego - I fail to see how this public humiliation helps anybody at this current point in time."

You're opinion changed now has it?

Let me tell you straight......nothing done on this hugely important issue by any of the people you mention is being done to feed any ego I can assure you. Far from it; I have been fending off approaches from TV producers from across the globe to appear live via Skype following that article.

I have no wish to become even for one minute a focal point of the very important issue of the freehold of Plainmoor falling into Gaming International' s hands and for that reason any TV stuff will be done by professionals who know what they are about. There are quality journalists form quality papers now covering this story and that is what we wanted and needed.

Someone who is a key mover in the mobilisation of resistance against Torquay United losing their security of tenure at Plainmoor said to me only this week: "until all this started I was actually enjoying my football despite the five season's of failure.......now I am getting to detest the game and the air of sinister menace that pervades it."

BTPIR carries a message on the tin if you like: "we are the messenger rather than the message!"

I am sure Dave and Louis run this site in exactly the same manner and together we can all make sure the message gets out that almost to a man/boy/girl/woman; Torquay United supporters ~ the very stakeholders in all this ~ do not want Gaming International or Clarke Osborne to get their hands on the freehold of Plainmoor!
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Post by Richinns »

merse btpir wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 18:14 That's rich coming from someone who commented on the Observer article: "No doubt we are in a the shitter right now but other than feeding Mr Merse's ego - I fail to see how this public humiliation helps anybody at this current point in time."

You're opinion changed now has it?

Let me tell you straight......nothing done on this hugely important issue by any of the people you mention is being done to feed any ego I can assure you. Far from it; I have been fending off approaches from TV producers from across the globe to appear live via Skype following that article.

I have no wish to become even for one minute a focal point of the very important issue of the freehold of Plainmoor falling into Gaming International' s hands and for that reason any TV stuff will be done by professionals who know what they are about. There are quality journalists form quality papers now covering this story and that is what we wanted and needed.

Someone who is a key mover in the mobilisation of resistance against Torquay United losing their security of tenure at Plainmoor said to me only this week: "until all this started I was actually enjoying my football despite the five season's of failure.......now I am getting to detest the game and the air of sinister menace that pervades it."

BTPIR carries a message on the tin if you like: "we are the messenger rather than the message!"

I am sure Dave and Louis run this site in exactly the same manner and together we can all make sure the message gets out that almost to a man/boy/girl/woman; Torquay United supporters ~ the very stakeholders in all this ~ do not want Gaming International or Clarke Osborne to get their hands on the freehold of Plainmoor!
Fear not - my opinion of you and your motives have not changed merse - no matter the lengths of your self promoting justifications for being and behaving as you do!

Now did you actually answer the question whether my overview of some of the information you have put on this and your forum is correct......
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Post by merse btpir »

You obviously have an axe to grind with me ~ and you and I know what it is don't we Richard ~ I'm not going to deflect attention away from the very important matters in hand by engaging with you on here just as you are unable to on BTPIR.
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Post by tomogull »

merse btpir wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 18:14 That's rich coming from someone who commented on the Observer article: "No doubt we are in a the shitter right now but other than feeding Mr Merse's ego - I fail to see how this public humiliation helps anybody at this current point in time."

You're opinion changed now has it?

Let me tell you straight......nothing done on this hugely important issue by any of the people you mention is being done to feed any ego I can assure you. Far from it; I have been fending off approaches from TV producers from across the globe to appear live via Skype following that article.

I have no wish to become even for one minute a focal point of the very important issue of the freehold of Plainmoor falling into Gaming International' s hands and for that reason any TV stuff will be done by professionals who know what they are about. There are quality journalists form quality papers now covering this story and that is what we wanted and needed.

Someone who is a key mover in the mobilisation of resistance against Torquay United losing their security of tenure at Plainmoor said to me only this week: "until all this started I was actually enjoying my football despite the five season's of failure.......now I am getting to detest the game and the air of sinister menace that pervades it."

BTPIR carries a message on the tin if you like: "we are the messenger rather than the message!"


I am sure Dave and Louis run this site in exactly the same manner and together we can all make sure the message gets out that almost to a man/boy/girl/woman; Torquay United supporters ~ the very stakeholders in all this ~ do not want Gaming International or Clarke Osborne to get their hands on the freehold of Plainmoor!
A begrudging 'well done' from me for getting the plight of TUFC in the National Press, although it would have been more effective if the reporter had stuck to facts since G.I. took over. Such comments as a player (Exodus), long gone from the club, supplementing his wages by acting as a bouncer simply muddied the waters.

Why do you find it necessary in your postings to use bold print or large print ?? We can all read normal size print, thanks - and I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds your style of posts gets up our noses ! :@
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Post by merse btpir »

I've been getting up people's noses all my life tomogull (oops!) ~ no chance of stopping me now and (if you're honest with yourself) every campaign needs someone like me!

It's Barry Glendenning's business how he writes his articles and not for either you or I to pull rank on a very accomplished and widely respected journalist. We were lucky to attract his interest and whatever you think of how he presented the story, it certainly did the trick and attracted widespread coverage that we had hitherto not received.

He certainly didn't have any influence from me how he presented it; I merely answered lots of questions from him and he chose which ones he wanted to feature.
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Post by tomogull »

merse btpir wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 20:57 I've been getting up people's noses all my life tomogull (oops!) ~ no chance of stopping me now and (if you're honest with yourself) every campaign needs someone like me!

It's Barry Glendenning's business how he writes his articles and not for either you or I to pull rank on a very accomplished and widely respected journalist. We were lucky to attract his interest and whatever you think of how he presented the story, it certainly did the trick and attracted widespread coverage that we had hitherto not received.

He certainly didn't have any influence from me how he presented it; I merely answered lots of questions from him and he chose which ones he wanted to feature.
Okay - fair enough. The club's response to the article was infantile and embarrassing but there is one fact that cannot be disputed. An 'accomplished and widely respected journalist' should have contacted the club for their comments before going to print.
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Post by Dazza »

I don't see why really Tomo. That's not exactly the way the world works any more. Maybe if contacted GI would have wished to comment on a number of the issues covered by the article and then the journalist if he didn't include all of them would have stood accused of being selective.

I still can't really see why this thread has developed into a slanging match. Rich puts some pretty pertinent points. Is no one going to give a view on any of them apart from my best guesses then?
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Post by merse btpir »

tomogull wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 21:12 The club's response to the article was infantile and embarrassing but there is one fact that cannot be disputed. An 'accomplished and widely respected journalist' should have contacted the club for their comments before going to print.
Do you 'know' that he didn't then?

It's well known within the media already, that Clarke Osborne repeatedly declines to speak to the press and if 'speaking to the club' means getting the monkey Tim Herbert on the end of the phone instead of the organ grinder Clarke Osbourne then that is a waste of time and is beginning to bite the club on the arse.
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Post by tomogull »

Dazza wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 21:47 I don't see why really Tomo. That's not exactly the way the world works any more. Maybe if contacted GI would have wished to comment on a number of the issues covered by the article and then the journalist if he didn't include all of them would have stood accused of being selective.

I still can't really see why this thread has developed into a slanging match. Rich puts some pretty pertinent points. Is no one going to give a view on any of them apart from my best guesses then?
'Best guesses' are the words ! I think your best guesses are as near the mark as any of us can get. I'm not sure I would go along with the Masons angle, but who knows ? Yes - I see Merse's point about do we really know that no contact was made with the club? We only have Tim Herbert's rant to say there wasn't. After all, Clarke Osborne refused yet again to speak to Radio Devon before the Braintree match. He really doesn't do anything to ease fans' worries that something detrimental to TUFC is going on behind closed doors. As someone has posted on another thread, it will probably all bubble to the surface after the last match.

As an aside, Oliver Holt, the Mail on Sunday (yeah, yeah - I'll wash my mouth out, but the crosswords are good) sports writer wrote a very good piece on the demise of Leyton Orient, making the point that owners like Becchetti can't take the soul out of a club - i.e. the club will be there in some form after they have gone. He himself is a Stockport County fan so knows all about clubs hit by bad management and lower league football. I have sent an email to him outlining the perceived threats to Torquay United. I haven't had a reply as yet and I doubt anything will come of it, but at least it makes him aware, even if he hasn't seen the Guardian/Observer piece.
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Post by Fonda »

Definitely worth a try Tomo, but I think it's probably naïve of all of us to think those in the national media don't know what's going on at our club. I'm sure they keep their ears to the ground of any such 'scandal' - but only report what they think their readership will be interested in. Fear we might have reached the level that national readership simply wouldn't care enough about a provincial club - because that is what we've almost become now. Hope I'm wrong on that - and if the national press really don't know what's happening (perhaps Merse has a view on that?) maybe we've not done our job as supporters well enough? Leyton Orient and Coventry fans have made a lot of noise about their problems (and rightly so) - as a support base do we need to get louder/more organised?
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Post by merse btpir »

Fonda wrote: 20 Apr 2017, 07:08I think it's probably naïve of all of us to think those in the national media don't know what's going on at our club. I'm sure they keep their ears to the ground of any such 'scandal' - but only report what they think their readership will be interested in. Fear we might have reached the level that national readership simply wouldn't care enough about a provincial club - because that is what we've almost become now. Hope I'm wrong on that - and if the national press really don't know what's happening (perhaps Merse has a view on that?) maybe we've not done our job as supporters well enough? Leyton Orient and Coventry fans have made a lot of noise about their problems (and rightly so) - as a support base do we need to get louder/more organised?
First of all we need to recognise reality and facts when making our case.......Torquay United are a small provincial non league club. Leyton Orient are a London English Football League club and somewhat of a cause celebre after being owned by Barry Hearn; Coventry City a former Premier League and FA Cup winning club ~ they will always be more newsworthy.

A story carried n the National Press needs to have national interest and so any journalist deciding to report it needs to know that he won't be wasting his time and that his editor will intend to publish it; then (even at the last minute) events of the time need to be favourable to the story getting including and not ending up on the cutting room floor.

When talking to Barry Glendenning one of the phrases he used to me was "let's keep our fingers crossed then" and so fingers were crossed and when I first clicked on the Guardian Football site very early on the Sunday morning it wasn't there. Then I got an excited call from someone quite significant in the Torquay United story that indeed it was now up and I later satisfied myself that the hard copy Observer had it included too. Sometimes inclusion can be that marginal.

A few months ago I did alert a few contacts in the media world (including one or two who do read and occasionally contribute to BTPIR that this story was building and all it needed was a 'trigger' event and that happened to come in the Guardian's case by the club showing such disinterest in getting the tickets out to the travelling fans for the Lincoln match when they were showing such loyalty and support for a club owner who doesn't appear to be reciprocating those qualities in return.....silly old club putting themselves in the frame there then and lucky old us; I wonder who told the media world about that?

Since then (and this is proof that both BTPIR & torquayfans.com are scrutinised by the media world (and lately on a global basis) I have received two significant communications from overseas TV stations covering the whole of the English (and other) speaking world interested in doing features on our story. Once again it could maybe the case that another 'trigger' is needed to get the club in the frame again and let's hope that is not the actual relegation of the club.

The players are doing their limited best to win that fight and the manager certainly is. They know to a man they are dead men walking as far as their employment ending the minute the final whistle sounds next Saturday, and I know the really hard part of the battle to keep this club in the picture will then kick-in ~ especially if relegation is avoided; but then was it ever any different trying to keep a sleepy backwater little club in the public eye and that's why people like Osborne probably get involved with the Herefords and Torquays of this world because they know they have a good chance of slipping in under the radar.

In my considered opinion; winning the fight against relegation is one very important thing, but winning the fight against the freehold of Plainmoor being put up for grabs is another thing entirely; much bigger and far tougher!
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