Guardian Article On Torquay

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Post by Rjc70 »

"One thing we can guarantee about the sorry mess is that at Coventry, Orient and Torquay when the wrecking ball incompetents inevitably move on, it will be the supporters rattling buckets to save what is left of the institutions they love," concludes the Daily Telegraph article.
@thoraxian wrote:No.need for a response sky blue gull it was a silly posting by a silly person who was having a bad night.. just to say I've already had a heart felt apology.. as for anything else my total respect goes out to merse Southampton gull Dave Floyd the tust and others who are making themselves heard however if my opinion counts for anything these days I feel this fight is already over g I have won here although results like Monday certainly won't be in the script... It certainly isn't fun being a Torquay fan anymore is it very sad
Anywhere but Torbay, a very recent Chief Executive of the only professional club in the area saying, on the subject of TUFC's future "Respect to those who are making themselves heard....I feel this fight is already over. GI have won here...it certainly isn't fun being a Torquay fan anymore. It is sad" might be considered newsworthy by the local newspaper. I'm not holding my **** breath that they'll report it.

I don't expect the club will respond to the Daily Telegraph article and I don't expect the HE will make any reference to it.

When the HE chose to ignore aspects of the past record of Clarke Osborne referred to in the Guardian/Observer article and not allow comments on it, their side of the line became abundantly clear. To my mind, it is shameful that a local newspaper would act in such a way, but that's as it is.

I don't see the HE stance now changing until they find they consistently cannot get hold of anyone available from GI for comment in the same way the local Swindon newspaper (Stadium delay) and former promoters and management of Reading Speedway (after Stadium demolished) reported that they can't and couldn't. I hope I am wrong.
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Post by Soupdragon »

samuel wrote: 18 Apr 2017, 23:22 I have been told that it is UNLIKELY the council will get rid of the freehold to GI (from an excellent source). However, although involved in property and planning myself, I have struggled to work out what the GI game plan is. I have juggled all the scenarios, spoken to several people in the know. In the offices at Plainmoor I have seen concept drawings of the new stadium, all purpose training pitch, hotel and retail outlets at The Willows. Looks lovely on paper but can only come to fruition as a result of a combination of shenanigans of immense proportions and deals so convoluted with so many uncertainties it would be a massive gamble. Assurances would have to be given by Torbay Council who are duty bound to get the highest price for their assets.

Problem with all of this is the secrecy and the fans being kept in the dark by the previous board, the mayor, the council - everyone. The confidentiality clause was an affront to the paying fan. Is there some missive - on any of the forums - where has someone actually worked out what would happen if GI actually did nothing. No investment in the team, just maintain the buildings, pay off the staff. Torquay United would fold. Then what, the freehold would be worth much less wouldn't it. The covenant would be diluted. I just can't work it out what they are up to. I would be interested to know whether Mr. Osbourne is a mason, didnt Mr. Oliver and his cohorts have a problem with this organisation a few years back - The Nolan Report recommendations not being adhered to. All this crap about whether meetings took place or not - officially or unofficially - between GI and the council is a smokescreen. 'What if' scenarios were discussed, probably in detail. As a fan of 55 years I just want someone to be open and truthful with me.

Incidentally, I believe the Torbay Tory MP is on side. With the election coming up - if he wasn't, I would give Mr. Sanders another go, a true fan.
Samuel, to answer (some of) your questions: Kevin Foster MP was at the game on Monday. Sent quite a few tweets to make sure we all knew, too. I think this answers my earlier query about 'the council' being at the game. If Foster's not a 'true' fan then he's going to do a good job of pretending to be over the coming eight weeks. No worries about him in that respect. But he has no say in this, it's a council level decision. Doesn't hurt that he will be on side, though.

I'd love to be able to say that the masons don't have a grip on elected members at the council. It's easy to check which of them are, they have to declare it in the Register of Members' Interests (also an interesting place to find out other little snippets) which is published online (tiresomely, not in a single document: you have to go via each councillor's page on the TBC website).

But the leader of the Tory group (as an aside, and quite apart from any other allowances and special reponsibility allowances they might get, leaders get paid £327 pa per member, so with 25-odd Tory members, that's over £8k a year to carry out a political role. Makes me spit) IS a mason. What would also be interesting is to find out whether Messrs Mowatt and Montgomery at the council/TDA are masons. I don't think staff - even senior staff - have to declare. I've no idea about Mr Osborne.

There WERE some issues about freemasonry at TBC a few years back. Laughably, the investigation into whether the masons were overstepping the mark at the council was carried out in secret. Of course, the investigation found no fault. Naturellement. Worse still, councillors were warned against speaking out in the future. You simply couldn't make it up.

It's interesting that you've seen some plans of a proposed development at the Willows. I recall that Jon on TFF said ages ago that one of the dangers of this whole scenario is that GI now has a vehicle onto which to load debt in the form of fees paid to consultants rather than having to fund their mad scheme proposals out of their own pockets. The club can't (won't) afford squad members for a few games to help avoid relegation, but can afford tens of thousands (at the very least) for development/consultancy plans. One has to assume that Mowatt/Montgomery have seen these.

I repeat what I have been told: Mayor Oliver has not met with GI to discuss this. GI's contact with the council has been through Mowatt and Montgomery. In order to be completely fair, the mayor also declined to meet with Michael of the Trust. To me, it certainly appears on the face of it that Mayor Oliver does not want whatever decision he makes to be open to any accusations of impropriety.

That is, of course, if there is ever any decision to be actually made about selling off Plainmoor. Still no formal proposals from GI. At least regarding Plainmoor.
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Post by merse btpir »

Soupdragon wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 10:51I'd love to be able to say that the masons don't have a grip on elected members at the council......
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Post by PaulR »

Would explain a lack of reporting from certain HE reporters!
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Post by TUST_Member_Rob »

David Thomas pulling his own Q&A style smoke and mirrors article

http://www.devonlive.com/come-on-gi-tor ... story.html
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Post by Rjc70 »

TUST_Member_Rob wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 13:56 David Thomas pulling his own Q&A style smoke and mirrors article

http://www.devonlive.com/come-on-gi-tor ... story.html
Don't mention the freehold, Dave!! He doesn't.
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Post by AndyC »

I had a Twitter exchange with Kevin Foster on Sunday morning, after a little prompting from an Exeter City supporting contact who was posing the question 'what are you doing to help TUFC' to a number of local representatives in politics and media.

It would be fair to say that Mr Foster is not going to be silent on the matter and he assured me he has spoken with TUST to discuss the developments at Plainmoor. He's definitely someone to keep on side, although as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, his thoughts are now going to be firmly on June 8's General Election and his nuptials, which were previously scheduled for two days after what is now the GE date!

This whole farrago needs to be a major campaign issue, if indeed it hasn't been signed and sealed before campaigning gets underway.

Mr Foster also has past experience of a similar issue from his time in Coventry, where he was warning about the problems likely to occur after the Ricoh Arena was built - the business plans for that stadium, he says, never looked like stacking up well for the Sky Blues and look where they are about to head.

All is not lost yet and it would appear there is a groundswell of people who will not let GI mess with the club without at least having to answer for their actions. Let's just hope that is enough!
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Post by standupsitdown »

TUST_Member_Rob wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 13:56 David Thomas pulling his own Q&A style smoke and mirrors article

http://www.devonlive.com/come-on-gi-tor ... story.html
Comments haven't been blocked on this article so let's make sure that even if David Thomas won't mention the freehold, we will.
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Post by happytorq »

holy crap, that DevonLive is the worst website ive ever used. trying to post a comment and the signup thing doesnt work and the oAuth stuff to Facebook, Twitter, etc is also broken.
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Post by happytorq »

Can someone post the comment for me on that article? It's a joke website, much like the rest of the Herald Express recently.

"The reason fans "continue to doubt their long-term commitment to the club" is that they have done absolutely nothing to suggest that's in their plans. Pretty much every communication from GI has been either florid evasion or appears to put pressure on the Council regarding the freehold. It's interesting - although not surprising - that the writer of this piece didn't mention the freehold given his obsequious silence on the matter in the past few months.

While it is correct that the issues surrounding the club are not all of GI's making, what's undeniable is that the new owners' actions have done nothing to quell the disquiet about the club's long-term future. They have had ample opportunity to ease those fears, and yet have chosen not to. Whether that's incompetence or something more sinister is - possibly - still open to debate, but the lack of investment on the playing side suggests that GI do not care which division Torquay United find themselves in; and that in turns plays into the worries that they're only after the aforementioned freehold without any intention of building a replacement stadium. Given their track record of building basically nothing that is promised, TUFC fans' fears are surely well founded.

On the surface, it appears to be a dereliction of your journalistic duty that you haven't used your platform to investigate further. "
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Post by Plainmoor78 »

I wouldn't be surprised if DT wrote that article on behalf of GI. It is suggesting that the recent evident fan unrest is simply about on pitch matters, and that is exactly what GI would wish, so as to act as a smoke screen hiding the real issue, ie the very existence of Torquay United AFC.
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Post by oldcommsboy »

Glostergull wrote: I would also urge the fan in Poole to do some digging as well. we need all the evidence we can find. I suspect we will find a lot of evidence of proposals put forward. studies done and plans drawn up and some even submitted. but that is all i would expect to find. i doubt even a shovel has been stuck in anger.

I am on the case. The father of one of my son's friends is big in Speedway and has coached riders at Poole stadium for years. I'll see if he knows anything.

Re: local newspapers. I think that they do not want to get lawyers breathing down their necks over something they have printed, and so keep quiet. I have noticed my local paper has kept away from issues that parents had with an Academy and comments have been deleted. I do know that the Academy's lawyers let the paper know they were watching.

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Post by samuel »

Thank you for the update Soupdragon. I am an optimistic fellow but I still can't work it out. If GI are a property company - what have they bought that is tangible - nothing, or do they own the stands, I can't remember. Why then would they put in 6 figures to something that is not turning a profit. No company, especially involved in property, would do this unless there was a game plan for the future. That game plan could only be formulated with positive indications from the land owners. It would be far to speculative to chuck £100,000 + on a scheme where the land owners have a duty to get the best price from the highest bidder. Torbay Council are not a private company or individual, they have to get the best price they can - by law.

I'm reading Wolf Hall at the moment, soon we will need a list of characters and their role like in the book to keep track of things. My personal opinion - something has been going on for ages between GI and the council, there would be too many imponderables for GI to get involved if there wasn't.

Some people out there not connected to GI know what the true situation is, whether they are ex-directors - forum members - councilors - club officials. They know what the score is. I don't. Does Dave Thomas, I don't know. I suspect after the North Ferriby game the bomb will be dropped.

Perhaps all will be revealed soon and we will breathe a sigh of relief, or we will be fuming and think 'of course -but we missed it or couldn't work it out'.

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Post by Glostergull »

oldcommsboy wrote: 19 Apr 2017, 16:46
I am on the case. The father of one of my son's friends is big in Speedway and has coached riders at Poole stadium for years. I'll see if he knows anything.

Re: local newspapers. I think that they do not want to get lawyers breathing down their necks over something they have printed, and so keep quiet. I have noticed my local paper has kept away from issues that parents had with an Academy and comments have been deleted. I do know that the Academy's lawyers let the paper know they were watching.

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can you check up on Poole town too. The football club have also been embroiled in this too.
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Post by oldcommsboy »

Will do.
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