Seize the initiative - or else?

[Jack]

I may be well off the mark but this is our current position as I see it.

GI are reluctant owners of Torquay United.
Torbay Council is obliged to get the best deal in cash or in kind for local taxpayers if it sells Plainmoor. "In kind" would have to be a stadium that at least matched Plainmoor.
GI are unlikely to make very much from a deal and any income could be a long time coming.
Torbay Council could borrow capital to build a new stadium provided the eventual sale proceeds from Plainmoor repaid the initial borrowing. There would be no need for a third party to be involved provided the Club was in a stable ownership.
The net cost running the Club is probably in the order of £300,000. Dave Phillips and Co soon realised there was a "black hole" and went into panic mode and brought GI on board.
There are no potential buyers on the horizon.

The only possible alternative to GI is fan ownership. A fan owned Club would have to be capable of raising £300,000 or whatever the annual loss might be each year.

The only way to establish whether fan ownership is possible would be to set up an open public meeting to establish a steering Committee to investigate the feasibility of fan ownership. Many names have been mentioned on the Forum and people such as Andrew Candy and Steve Breed have some inside knowledge about running the Club. The TUST would also have an important role. All fans with the best interests of Torquay United would need to put personal differences aside and work together. If fan ownership isn't feasible then I'm afraid we are left with GI and we will have to be satisfied with the crumbs that fall off their table.

[Plainmoor78]

All this has been done in the past. TUST have abandoned hope of fan ownership.

[Jack]

OK so we are stuck with GI and we will have to live with the consequences.

[Plainmoor78]

The only possible alternative to GI is fan ownership. A fan owned Club would have to be capable of raising £300,000 or whatever the annual loss might be each year.

Lets say we get fan ownership with 2000 paying members. That means to cover your £300,000 annual loss each member will have to stump up £150 each a year.
When the supporters trust recently asked for its members to stump up £100 each only 19 members responded.

Look at what is happening on the forums at the moment; lots of people calling for protests at matches, but no one actually organising anything.

I work in Newton abbot and amongst match going collegues there is probably an equal split between Torquay, Exeter and Plymouth fans. When talking to people about the current situation at plainmoor the Plymouth fans are better informed than the Torquay fans. Why that is I have no idea. Although I might add when Plymouth were having problems under Dan mccauley and Exeter under Russell and Lewis there seemed to be more publicity in the local press and on local television than there is now.

The fact is most people go to watch football to be entertained, they don't want to get involved beyond that level. With our low supporter base we just haven't got the number of committed supporters we need.

[merse btpir]

Look at what is happening on the forums at the moment; lots of people calling for protests at matches, but no one actually organising anything.

If you do the maths there are very few calling for protests at matches and even fewer calling for protest in the streets. Imagine the ridicule and scorn a fanny full of fanatics carrying a coffin through St Marychurch to the ground to all round bemusement and puzzlement to all and sundry in the streets and the apathetic in the ground...........no leave that one alone please!

the Plymouth fans are better informed than the Torquay fans. Why that is I have no idea. Although I might add when Plymouth were having problems under Dan mccauley and Exeter under Russell and Lewis there seemed to be more publicity in the local press and on local television than there is now.

I think that is because they have a noisier trust and more of the feet on the ground realists who support their club as a percentage than support United. Exeter City earned their right for respect by actually achieving what they set out to do so respect is there in bucket loads. People putting their money where their mouth is, is not going to happen in sufficient numbers amongst United's support I'm afraid; and so the aim of the game has to be to put a stop to GI getting the freehold and then dealing with the fallout if that happens and they decide enough is enough.

The battle is nowhere near conclusion!

[Jack]

Plainmoor78 you have confirmed my own conclusion, namely that we don't have enough "can do" locally based fans to take on the running of the club.
I think the fan base on this forum are being a bit harsh on GI for not allowing Nicho to bring in additional players prior to the transfer deadline. Why should they? It is their money that is keeping the club afloat after all and if they chose to reduce their losses then that is up to them.

[merse btpir]

As you correctly say Jack; GI are reluctant owners of Torquay United. Torbay Council is obliged to get the best deal in cash or in kind for local taxpayers if it sells Plainmoor. "In kind" would have to be a stadium that at least matched Plainmoor and GI are unlikely to make very much from a deal and any income could be a long time coming.

Remember when GI had a look at it before they walked away; they only walked back to protect their loans to the club which had become unpayable and so they took the equity put up as co-lateral.

Those are the simple facts with the provision that GI might have been playing a carrot and stick game by offering that injection of working capital to the last owners knowing full well they would be unable to repay it unless they found another buyer. It is history now that they did not, that they had a big decision to make and in the end had it made for them by Clarke Osborne.

When shouting this and shouting that; people need to keep the actualite of the situation at the forefront of their mind. What would have happened post Christmas if nobody else had been there to pay the wages? The club would have gone into administration and the company quite likely been liquidated and the football club as we know it already dead and buried.

Something else that currently worries me is this quest by Osborne to recruit a 'local board' and my suspicion that many of those he has approached have turned him down. where does that leave him then; turning to people like Bill Phillips to fulfil that role? Turning to people like Simon Baker to return?

I don't need to tell you what Dave (SG) and I think about that prospect; just imagine the pair who oversaw daily losses of almost £2,000 a day ~ a day mark you ~ ever getting a hands on role within the club again. They would be at odds with Osborne and Chris Rich within the month! Their total and abject failure to ever put in the necessary revenue strams is what led to the demise of the cub under Thea Bristow anyway and her appalling inability to realise what was going on was damaging both to her personal finances and to the club's long term future.

No; we need better than that. Clarke Osborne needs better than that and I suspect he knows it!

[Plainmoor78]

OK so we are stuck with GI and we will have to live with the consequences.

I'm sorry I misinterpreted your reply.
I know this is going to be unpopular but we have to admit that if GI hadn't taken over we would still be in the same shit, or have been liquidated already as merse suggested. If GI hadn't made the original loans we would have probably been relegated last season.
I get a feeling that the reason GI didn't invest in the side is due to their plans hitting a wall, and that wall may be that the council will not sell them the freehold of plainmoor.
If GI chose to get out now we will be truly ****. As much as I have sympathy for Nico he hasn't shown that he can produce a competitive side, we really can do without producing another sacred cow who is beyond criticism as Thea is. We need to be realistic and find the right personnel who can take this club forward. I am concerned that merse has hinted that the board may be peopled by those who probably share most of the blame for our current situation. As for GI's real intentions we can only hope they are sincere, but I am in no doubt that if they walk we have had it.

[merse btpir]

[quote=Plainmoor78 post_id=202749 time=1490971462 user_id=23804] As much as I have sympathy for Nico he hasn't shown that he can produce a competitive side, we really can do without producing another sacred cow who is beyond criticism as Thea is. We need to be realistic and find the right personnel who can take this club forward.

That hits the nail very firmly on the head and should be the thought process going through whoever it is responsible for the future direction of the club. There ARE people out there with a track record of producing success in this league with amongst the smallest budgets within it. There are people producing successful teams in the couple of levels below National League who are producing successful teams.

It is from amongst this fraternity that the club should have recruited before and must in the future if they are to change the management in the summer.

[Dazza]

No Plainmoor 78 we will be well and truly **** if GI don't get out. Let's not get daft about it they in for the one reason - to build on the ground and make money. If there is a big enough surplus we would get a replacement ground --- what realistically are the chances of that?! --- it all makes no commercial sense at all-- and who do you think is going to be biggest loser-- those who support the club-- there will no club and no ground.

If GI are in for successful stadium management let's see a 5 year plan showing how they achieve it AT PLAiNMOOR.

[Plainmoor78]

The fact is we were up shit creek before GI even emerged on the scene. Also had they not taken over we would have been in administration with a ten point deduction, virtually guaranteeing relegation. Like or not, if GI walked away now we have no money to carry on.
GI never wanted the club after walking away last year and only came back in to protect their loan. I suspect their plans for the club have run into problems and won't be sorted out till after the season has finished.
GI haven't helped themselves through lack of communication with stakeholders and this has resulted in the current state of hostility from the fanbase.
But the fact is : Before GI up shit creek, with GI up shit creek, after GI up shit creek.

[Plainmoor78]

I suppose the admin think it this is funny. It equates to censorship

[Plainmoor78]

Its **** April fool isn't it. Wonderful.

[tomogull]

I suppose wonderful admin think it this is funny. It equates to censorship

Well, thank Gawd for your post. I thought it was me 'cos I haven't taken my pills yet !! Obviously, the hackers have hacked. There's a wonderful headache for you, Louis !!

[Southampton Gull]

Not guilty