MacDonald to Norwich?

[PhilGull]

Really? That's your interpretation on it ~ certainly not mine and again I suggest reading of the post properly and so realisation that I said the situation had been turned around.

Whilst we're on the subject of players and the perception that they are (in my opinion) better than they really are; a lot of bog ordinary players are elevated to faux #legendary status in this day and age when in reality they would have been hard pressed to get into the reserves during the zenith of the club's history and I would include Angus MacDonald as one of those.

But good luck to him and he can only be what he is and try to be it to the best of his ability and it is patently obvious that he had let himself sink a hell of a long way after departing the scene at Reading FC before finally having the realisation that he could (and should) be doing a lot better for himself.

I don't know why I'm replying to this, a fine example of why I only read the BTPIR board and never bother posting. My response to your initial post Merse was because, like madgull I interpreted what you said as being by the time he left you were fed up with him and would have been happy to see him released for nowt.
Not that it matters. I was just trying to nip some revisionism in the bud by pointing out that far from "Nobody was complaining at the time though were they ~ indeed quite the opposite" many of us were actually very sad to seem him go and could see his potential to become a great player worth a lot more than £0.1m.

[Southampton Gull]

To be fair, he was a young raw centre half and still had the potential that Reading saw in him as a young kid. He just needed to mature a little and then show his true worth. Some did indeed see that before we sold him on. I remember saying at the time it was far too little for someone with his potential. Moot point now but I do feel Exeter have the people in place to maximise the revenue gained from nurturing youth.

[Neal]

I don't think any of this matters. if you think that money IF we ever got it would go to strengthen the playing squad your barking mad. I was going to say eat me hat but some famous politician said that and it came home to roost.

[Dave]

Don't think anyone is doubting the potential in Angus was there all a long, Reading youth academy, England U16/U19, however Reading chose to release the player. It is up to an individual player to bring that potential to the fore, there's only so much youth coaching and mentoring can do.

Reading clearly took the view he wouldn't develop, Darrel Clarke, now successful Bristol Rovers manager, had Angus at Salisbury and choose not to take him to Rovers, as he did some other Salisbury players he had at the time, so he clearly didn't think that potential would ever come to the fore either.

The one thing Merse was right to point out, Angus did, there is no arguing it, go through a period of awful ill-discipline coupled at the time with some, clumsy performances, and it would have been understandable if any coach/manager had lost patience with him as a player, at that point in time.

But this is what I mean about it being up to the individual player, at that time his career could have gone two ways, it could have fizzled out, or he could have knuckled down, done some growing up and started to use the talent he had, thankfully that's the path he went down, Angus has clearly benefitted from playing at a much higher level, and benefitted from exposure to better coaching.

The point about transfer values is simple, market forces apply. TUFC owned the registration of a player, TUFC had bills to pay it couldn't, TUFC were desperate to sell the one player they had, that could be sold, TUFC had no choice but to settle for Barnsley's best offer, if Barnsley were not prepared to pay a penny more than they did, our club could have said no, but may have been left in a position where by it would have forced into administration, no option would have been worse than that.

Thing is with Exeter, when it comes to selling on youth players they make there own luck, I had first knowledge of the workings, of Plymouth, Exeter, and as a qualified local youth coach, spent just short of season doing voluntary work for the youth set we had, walked away in the end, so appalled at what I was seeing, and the bull shitter that's no returned to our club.

It kills me to say this, but Exeter's youth set up, is superior to both Plymouth's and what we had put together, in every way, hence why they've turned out players like Dean Moxey and Matt Grimes local lads to point out, and the best we've come up with is, Sam Chaney, not a local lad, not that matters, but there is a point in there.

Which is, the talent in our local area was there, see Matt Jay, and in the Devon area at large only if Mr Harrop and his gang weren't to bone idle to look for it.

[merse btpir]

The point about transfer values is simple, market forces apply. TUFC owned the registration of a player, TUFC had bills to pay it couldn't, TUFC were desperate to sell the one player they had, that could be sold, TUFC had no choice but to settle for Barnsley's best offer, if Barnsley were not prepared to pay a penny more than they did, our club could have said no, but may have been left in a position where by it would have forced into administration, no option would have been worse than that.

Exactly; so no-one (let's say no-one who actually had to put their personal circumstances on the line because there were liabilities to service that they were responsible for) was complaining were they!

[tomogull]

It kills me to say this, but Exeter's youth set up, is superior to both Plymouth's and what we had put together, in every way, hence why they've turned out players like Dean Moxey and Matt Grimes local lads to point out, and the best we've come up with is, Sam Chaney, not a local lad, not that matters, but there is a point in there.

Which is, the talent in our local area was there, see Matt Jay, and in the Devon area at large only if Mr Harrop and his gang weren't to bone idle to look for it.

Forever is spot on. It isn't only the players like Moxey and Grimes they sell for big bucks, it's also the players that perhaps might not go on to bigger clubs, but have a commitment to the club that gave them a chance. I'm not up to speed with how many of City's present first-team squad have come through the youth ranks, but I'm thinking of Christie Pym who now appears to be first choice keeper ahead of Olejnik and the lad up front whose name escapes me who is knocking in a few goals (he could very well be the next money-making transfer for the club). Their Youth System should be the sort we ought to be basing ours on when/if re-introduced.

[Plymouth Gull]

Forever is spot on. It isn't only the players like Moxey and Grimes they sell for big bucks, it's also the players that perhaps might not go on to bigger clubs, but have a commitment to the club that gave them a chance. I'm not up to speed with how many of City's present first-team squad have come through the youth ranks, but I'm thinking of Christie Pym who now appears to be first choice keeper ahead of Olejnik and the lad up front whose name escapes me who is knocking in a few goals (he could very well be the next money-making transfer for the club). Their Youth System should be the sort we ought to be basing ours on when/if re-introduced.

Ollie Watkins. From Newton Abbot. He's been subject of a bid from Mansfield (£350,000) which was rejected and he is likely to go onto the Championship in the (near) future.

It's an attitude thing too though - and not just the manager/club. We, the fans play a part. Yet unfortunately some of our fans tend to shout obscenities at our younger players after a mistake. The only effect that is likely to have on them is negative - they're either likely to let it get to them, or play safe for the remainder of the game. Take Lee for example. It was clear to all inside Plainmoor that he was a bag of nerves against Woking, and the penalty didn't help things. That was five minutes into his first game for us, and he was already being written off as absolute rubbish. It has happened to Chaney too this season.

Two/three months ago Exeter were at the foot of the table. Did Tisdale lose faith in his youth? Nope, and now they're in a great position to gatecrash the promotion picture. There are a lot of lessons to be learnt from the way they do things up the road, with regards to youth structure at the very least.

[tomogull]

Ollie Watkins. From Newton Abbot. He's been subject of a bid from Mansfield (£350,000) which was rejected and he is likely to go onto the Championship in the (near) future.

It's an attitude thing too though - and not just the manager/club. We, the fans play a part. Yet unfortunately some of our fans tend to shout obscenities at our younger players after a mistake. The only effect that is likely to have on them is negative - they're either likely to let it get to them, or play safe for the remainder of the game. Take Lee for example. It was clear to all inside Plainmoor that he was a bag of nerves against Woking, and the penalty didn't help things. That was five minutes into his first game for us, and he was already being written off as absolute rubbish. It has happened to Chaney too this season.

Two/three months ago Exeter were at the foot of the table. Did Tisdale lose faith in his youth? Nope, and now they're in a great position to gatecrash the promotion picture. There are a lot of lessons to be learnt from the way they do things up the road, with regards to youth structure at the very least.

Ah yes - Ollie Watkins, that's the lad. Thanks Plymouthgull. I hadn't realised he was from Newton Abbot or that Mansfield had put in a £350,000 bid for him. How the hell can a tinpot club like Mansfield afford £350,000 ?? I tend to agree with much of your post and I have always felt that Ashley Yeoman would have turned out to be a more all round player if he'd been with Exeter.

Re Lee, I think it was a big mistake by Nicho to select him from the start against Woking, The lad had hardly had chance to meet his team-mates and it was clear that Woking targeted him right from the start. He played better as the game went on, but the damage was already done of course. Also, it wasn't fair on another young lad, Rooney, who I thought had done okay in the couple of games I saw him play.

[arcadia]

Good posting Tommo the youth with potential have got to be looked after and need confidence an experience manager would never have played the lad it could have destroyed the lad. Rooney had earned his place.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Anyway, back on topic, :} I've heard that Gus won't be in Barnsley's team tomorrow v rovrum....
So it maybe that he's off.....

[Southampton Gull]

Exactly; so no-one (let's say no-one who actually had to put their personal circumstances on the line because there were liabilities to service that they were responsible for) was complaining were they!

You mean back when we had just pulled in £200k for the season tickets? The liabilities weren't too prevalent back then, it was the plans for the income through the winter where the problem lay. I can agree to disagree, in my view he was definitely the one player we had that was potentially worth serious money in the future. Yes, he was well away from a multi-million pound move , well half a season actually.

[madgull]

Really? That's your interpretation on it ~ certainly not mine and again I suggest reading of the post properly and so realisation that I said the situation had been turned around.

Nah, it's just what you wrote actually meant as opposed to what you think it meant... :}

Still think it's a good deal as long as we don't get stiffed :-|

[merse btpir]

You mean back when we had just pulled in £200k for the season tickets? The liabilities weren't too prevalent back then, it was the plans for the income through the winter where the problem lay.

Well the increasing debt to GI was there in the summer for a start Dave and money was owed to Pete Masters too......

For a long time there has been a lack of judgement from those blinded by loyalty to those they hold in high esteem: The 'Alex Rowe' board never really got to grips with putting in place sufficient extra streams away from the football side of the operation. They were better than when ~ under Thea Bristow's direction ~ Dean Edwards had virtually carte blanche to produce as little as he did without any proper questioning as to the discrepancy between what he was achieving and his counterparts at other similarly placed clubs. At BTPIR we had one infamous case of US having to chase HIM for three months just to get an invoice in order to pass money over to the club we had collected for a sponsored match....you couldn't have made this shit up if you'd tried!

.......and people like Stuart Wood then stand up in a fans forum and call us "poison"; whilst nodding donkeys like Nigel Tabb blithely say they 'don't read the forums'. No wonder these long standing supporters and others like them don't really know what's gone on, how they've been conned and cheated out of their devotion to the club and unwavering support.

The last administration under Dave Phillips has been a joke in it's naivety and willingness again to be conned by Edwards and it's lack of perception in what was really needed when looking for a manager to extricate a vehicle stranded over a cliff top with two wheels in mid-air......it certainly wasn't a learner driver was it!

Gaming International have immediately appointed a finance director (Chris Rich) and an expert in facility revenue maximisation (Bill Glass) to the football club (or maybe that of Riviera Stadium Ltd) board when it appears all the local populace want is to see is a return of discredited former directors who got the club into the mess it currently finds itself in.

Granted; there are concerns as to the genuine purpose of their ownership, but at the end of the day they have been delivered the club through the previous board's ineptitude and debt to their loan facility and there is nothing we can do about it but hope that they run the operation professionally and competently.

The million dollar question now remains: was that 'Trojan Horse' of a season ticket deal a stupidly and ill thought out measure to get money in with total disregard to the revenue streams for the rest of the season whilst the wolf was banging at the door in the summer; or was it a dastardly plot by Clarke Osborne to render Dave Phillips and his band of pensioners dead ducks by Christmas? Either way; that was the outcome and if in the event GI reap the benefit of another Angus MacDonald windfall thanks to Norwich City then how ironic that it was the board of Phillips who prevented them getting the second fifty grand instalment from Barnsley by taking a ten per cent hit and having it brought forward ahead of the finality of signing the club over to their nemesis have handed that to them on a plate.

[wivelgull]

I'm not sure who 'merse' is, but I'm beginning to like him. Anyone who puts Robin as his favourite player is top-rate in my book, and I am beginning to get the impression that 'merse' is a brucie-type character, saying the truth about things rather than beating around the bush and pandering to the gallery. Carry on 'merse' !

[Dave]

Forever is spot on. It isn't only the players like Moxey and Grimes they sell for big bucks, it's also the players that perhaps might not go on to bigger clubs, but have a commitment to the club that gave them a chance. I'm not up to speed with how many of City's present first-team squad have come through the youth ranks, but I'm thinking of Christie Pym who now appears to be first choice keeper ahead of Olejnik and the lad up front whose name escapes me who is knocking in a few goals (he could very well be the next money-making transfer for the club). Their Youth System should be the sort we ought to be basing ours on when/if re-introduced.

Exeter City have at least 5 first team squad players maybe more, including their team captain who came through the clubs youth set up, 3 who came from TUFC's catchment area, not just Watkins, but Matt Jay, I mentioned above is a Denbury lad, and there's one other in their first team squad from Paignton, Christie Pym as you mention above I believe is from Plymstock, it just about says it all really.

It terms basing a youth set up Exeter's, to be fair Tommo, the basic workings of the academy TUFC closed was no different to City's, both had a main academy with an academy manager, and foundation lead coach in place as required, TUFC had a development centre, City a performance centre, same thing just different names, that's where the similarities stopped.

TUFC didn't have a proper scouting team in place, took the view point both publicly and privately that the talent didn't exist in our catchment area and the Southwest as whole, so didn't bother even looking that hard, a view point totally disproved 20 minutes up the road. The interaction between Development centre and main academy was virtually non-existent, Matt Williams used to go once in a very blue moon and have a look at the Ashburton based centre, did he ever go to Truro or Taunton, probably not, there used to be a once year fixture between the two, I once watched the then U13 development squad rip the main academy team a new one, yet only two players were promoted up from that development squad.

That's the difference, Exeter have a very active scouting team, who are not scared to cross into other clubs catchment areas and take the best players, there is regular interaction between their academy and performance centres players, players from their performance centres are often sent to academy training for assessment, players who are struggling on certain aspects of their development are sent into the performance centres, and given time to improve, so they keep their players with in their youth set up.

If Geoff Harrop does start up a new form of youth set up, hopefully he'll be a little more proactive in scouting, though any youth setup started by the club now, isn't going to be that attractive to join, to be fair.