PLAINMOOR FOR SALE?

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Terry Henry
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PLAINMOOR FOR SALE?

Post by Terry Henry » 06 Jan 2017, 09:01

I know I am in the minority, and that's fine. But I'm just putting it out there that I don't see Plainmoor as being the key to any success. Don't get me wrong, I think the whole GI situation stinks worse than Brixham Harbour on a summer's day, but if (and I know that is a very big if with GI involved) we got a shiny new stadium and all the other things were in place to ensure the club didn't get ripped off, would that be such a bad thing? I know all the stuff around the club's history, but for the majority of punters is that really the main thing? I'm not trolling - genuine question.


forevertufc
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Post by forevertufc » 06 Jan 2017, 09:25

The problem is two fold. G.I as we all know and understand, have a history of promising new stadiums, yet never actually building them, as long the correct watertight legal protections are put in place, so G.I can not move TUFC out of Plainmoor until a new stadium is both built, and signed off, I don't see the problem, and something the council could ensure before agreeing any deals.

The second problem is, will any profits/income generated by any new stadium be ploughed back into the club, well who knows, most think it wouldn't be, so we may have anew stadium, but what sort of a football club would we be left with, that's anyone's guess.

One thing I do know, whilst Plainmoor is a neat, tidy modern little stadium that meets our needs attendance wise, our football club will never progress beyond what it has become if we stay there, attendances alone will NOT, in fact never generate the income needed in todays market to build a successful team, nor will it ever generate enough income for our club, to ever compete back in the football league, there is nothing that can be done at Plainmoor to increase revenue streams, there is no room, and it's location is pants.

Look at Cheltenham, look at how the Bristow's money took us up 2009, look what happened very quickly to our club once that money dried up.


Plainmoor78
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Post by Plainmoor78 » 06 Jan 2017, 09:27

standupsitdown wrote:If Plainmoor is sold I fear it will be then end for the club. Too many clubs have lost their stadium & been promised others, but been let down.
If the council agree to sell, as a Community Asset they cannot simply sell it to GI without giving time (6 months?) for others who want to keep it as a football ground to raise funds and bid.
Have we any idea what the ground may be worth – with the covenant on it?
Is it more likely that finding people to put money into buying the ground would be easier than the club. The ground would cost more but there is something tangible for the money and possibly a small return, whereas money into a football club is effectively written off as lost.
Clubs with much smaller crowds than Torquay are surviving, albeit part time. If the ground can be secured and then lose interest and can be bought off, then there is a future. If not I can see AFC Torquay starting from a very low league but even then Plainmoor would be the key to success.
Figures suggested over all three forums estimate the ground to be worth between £250k and £300k with sitting tenant. If brought we would be responsible for its upkeep but the cost of this would be covered by the rent we can charge.


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Post by Neal » 06 Jan 2017, 10:47

Terry Henry wrote:I know I am in the minority, and that's fine. But I'm just putting it out there that I don't see Plainmoor as being the key to any success. Don't get me wrong, I think the whole GI situation stinks worse than Brixham Harbour on a summer's day, but if (and I know that is a very big if with GI involved) we got a shiny new stadium and all the other things were in place to ensure the club didn't get ripped off, would that be such a bad thing? I know all the stuff around the club's history, but for the majority of punters is that really the main thing? I'm not trolling - genuine question.
Nothing to do with the history. The baseline is we would be in a shiney new probably smaller dual purpose stadium with a landlord who ONLY is in it to make money. if you think there will be terms and conditions put in place to safe guard the club for the future your mad. There will be a tenancy agreement probably for several years that will have to be renewed because no property developer is going to give the club a lease of say 100 years on a workable rent, Currently we have an adequate, well far and above adequate statdium with a landlord who is democratically elected at least.

I agree we will probably and I say probably wont be hugely successful in our current situation, but do people really think that any property developer is going to be soooooooo generous to divert profits from other activities to the tenant. No wonder there are so many people taken for scams these days, people are naïve and just cannot face reality. Rather do nothing and hope everything turns out ok. Some smooth communicator promises heaven and earth and everyone believes it, unbelievable. Its like all the free offers and sales out theres, that actually are never what they seem, people fall for it, some people are just ripe for getting ripped off and believing everything they hear. In fact this lot havnt even got a smooth communicator, they don't communicate. You cant make this up its so
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brucie
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Post by brucie » 06 Jan 2017, 10:50

Exactly - and anyone who thinks otherwise should really be confined to a rest home for the terminally gullible.


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Post by portugull » 06 Jan 2017, 12:11

I spoke to the Clerk at Torquay Town Hall this morning who confirmed that the meeting scheduled for 18 January had been postponed.

The lady, who was very articulate, also confirmed that provisionally the meeting had been rearranged for the 6 February.

She confirmed that there had been considerable public interest and I pointed out that the Council should at least consider making a public statement on the subject because, in my view, the lack of any statement only fuels speculation.

I was given to understand that those of us who had contacted the Council by email would shortly receive a response.

My feeling is that the Council are only now getting to grips with this issue and I think they realise they need to tread very carefully.


standupsitdown
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Post by standupsitdown » 06 Jan 2017, 13:21

£250,000 - £300,000 doesn't seem an impossible sum for TUST to raise in the 6 months available if the council decide to sell.
£100 per match going supporter. Some may put in more, some less. There could be crowd funding and I'm sure many people in the Bay would put in a bit to help keep the football club, even if they don't actually turn up and support.
It would seem a far better proposition to put money into buying the ground than just the club, which could easily be a black hole.
Hopefully GI would be pleased to sell at a reasonable price if they don't get the ground.


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Post by oldcommsboy » 06 Jan 2017, 15:16

standupsitdown wrote:£250,000 - £300,000 doesn't seem an impossible sum for TUST to raise in the 6 months available if the council decide to sell.
£100 per match going supporter. Some may put in more, some less. There could be crowd funding and I'm sure many people in the Bay would put in a bit to help keep the football club, even if they don't actually turn up and support.
It would seem a far better proposition to put money into buying the ground than just the club, which could easily be a black hole.
Hopefully GI would be pleased to sell at a reasonable price if they don't get the ground.
Yes, I thought that - it's around the sort of mortgage many people take out on their homes these days as a comparison. But presumably there would be debts to settle, not forgetting the GI loan? So a full business plan would probably be needed?

Chris


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Post by gullpower » 06 Jan 2017, 15:22

Neal wrote:
gullpower wrote:I have submitted an online petition titled Save Plainmoor to Torbay Council and they are "reviewing my request". Hopefully I will soon be able to post a link.
Please keep us posted as soon as its available to sign I will sign it
I have just rung the Council offices (Governance Support) who have told me it can take up to 10 days to review a request for an online petition :@


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Post by arcadia » 06 Jan 2017, 16:07

I think that it is very important to make every Torquay United supporter in the country aware that the club needs help. Put a picture of the ground on facebook to let people see whats happening as it's to late when it's all over. I've had it on my home page for a week.


Neal
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Post by Neal » 06 Jan 2017, 16:39

Actually owning a % of the land that the club is on might actually work for a lot of us. There is a return of sorts, don't know what it is, and that ownership can be handed down. There is actually very ltd exposure as the tenant takes on that, as the tenant owns the buildings. The council would at least have to put the sale out to tender im sure. 300 people coughing up £1000 each. £1000 don't earn much in interest these days in a bank account.
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Post by merse btpir » 06 Jan 2017, 18:09

TUST weren't even informed or consulted by the Mayor
]even though they possess the AoCV

Just to illustrate how slanted all this tale is towards business interest and against that of the local community and supporters of the club; it has been brought to my attention that until they contacted the council; TUST were neither informed nor invited for their comments even though it is THEY who hold the Asset of Community Value for Plainmoor........

Even though the all important Asset of Community Value designation was granted for Plainmoor in 2015 in favour of Torquay United Supporters Trust, 'the council' appear blithely unaware of this or deliberately dismissive of it's relevance and legality.

So how come a committee has been formed to discuss the lease of this registered community asset without any consultation, indeed any contact with those who are the legal holders of it?

I think it now becomes apparent as to why the meeting has had to be put back a week.

As well as representatives from Torquay United, the council also included the neighbouring school in their communications, yet they omitted representation of the supporters of Torquay United and the wider community who have a clearly vested interest in any plans that could affect Plainmoor and the future of Torquay United.

Seeing as TUST are a legally constituted Community Benefit Trust and were forced to then request that they be included in all consultation with immediate effect I think that speaks volumes about either the ineptitude or arrogance of local government don't you?. 
Last edited by merse btpir on 06 Jan 2017, 18:19, edited 1 time in total.


yellowmonkey
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Post by yellowmonkey » 06 Jan 2017, 18:16

standupsitdown wrote:£250,000 - £300,000 doesn't seem an impossible sum for TUST to raise in the 6 months available if the council decide to sell.
£100 per match going supporter. Some may put in more, some less. There could be crowd funding and I'm sure many people in the Bay would put in a bit to help keep the football club, even if they don't actually turn up and support.
It would seem a far better proposition to put money into buying the ground than just the club, which could easily be a black hole.
Hopefully GI would be pleased to sell at a reasonable price if they don't get the ground.
Love the bit about people from the bay wanting to keep the club! I know several residents who live near Plainmoor and have said that they would be glad if the club went as their house prices would go up. Not everyone keen to save Torquay it seems.


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Post by merse btpir » 06 Jan 2017, 18:21

yellowmonkey wrote: Love the bit about people from the bay wanting to keep the club! I know several residents who live near Plainmoor and have said that they would be glad if the club went as their house prices would go up. Not everyone keen to save Torquay it seems.
It needs pointing out that not one of these NIMBYS owned their houses before Torquay United were established in the ground and that they have benefitted from a reduced valuation of their properties because of the proximity of the ground when they purchased them!

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Post by Lloyder5 » 06 Jan 2017, 18:27

Received a reply to my email at 4.30;

Dear Andrew, I can confirm that the lease for Plainmoor/Torquay United FC will not be discussed at the meeting of the Policy Development and Decision Group (Joint Operations Team) on 18 January 2017. It has been provisionally scheduled for the meeting on 6 February 2017 but may be deferred to a later date. I will let you know when I have any further updates.

Kind regards, Teresa


Teresa Buckley
Governance Team Leader/Health & Safety Co-ordinator

Governance Support Team - Torbay Council
Town Hall, Torquay, TQ1 3DR
( (01803) 207013
TUST number 080

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