Player Fitness

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merse btpir
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Post by merse btpir »

forevertufc wrote: 27 Sep 2017, 19:31All this talk and the good old days and drinking clubs, it's utter nonsense, that may well have worked in 1970's and 80's, but the global game has moved on since then massively.....
It certainly has; it is faster, more technical on far superior playing surfaces and with different interpretations of the laws of the game commensurate with all of that.

Different style and weight kits, footwear and footballs. The game is as different now than it was twenty years ago as it was in my time from thirty years before. My first pair of brown leather boots in the late fifties had nailed in leather studs that my father used to bang in on his last; my first shin guards (so bulky were they we referred to them as shin pads) were made of lengths of cane pushed through a canvas covering and now sixty years later I can balance one of my son's 'boots' on one finger they are so light, and his shin guards are so light yet so durable they need to be held in place by specifically made lycra hose. Tie ups are redundant because the socks are self supporting and are generally worn over the knee until the joints have warmed up!

So all that requires a different technique, road to fitness and an emphasis on speed, recovery and agility that was never dreamed of when players went out on the lash and even ate steak before matches.....time never stands still.
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Post by westyorkshiregull »

What did garry hill say last year ?
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Post by merse btpir »

Read how one of the many part-time clubs to out-think and out-perform 'full-time' United go about their business......
http://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/beh ... he-n-40239
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Post by Lloyder5 »

forevertufc wrote: 27 Sep 2017, 19:31 We all know the players were hitting the gym, and to be honest this is not overly wrong, it depends how often and what were they doing whilst there. A player doesn't need 56 inch biceps and pecs so large they start and end in two different postcodes.

A player needs strength in his lower back, stomach and legs, the rest Is down to technique, there's a big difference between static and dynamic warm up's and stretch's also, too much static, and yes, your going to pick up injuries.
Agreed, I was told by a gym user that when some of the players were training unsupervised their work was low intensity; what should have been done in an hour was taking twice the time.
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Post by chardie »

merse btpir wrote: 28 Sep 2017, 09:59 Read how one of the many part-time clubs to out-think and out-perform 'full-time' United go about their business......
http://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/beh ... he-n-40239
Thanks for posting this link, very interesting article.
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Post by merse btpir »

merse btpir wrote: 27 Sep 2017, 20:45 So all that requires a different technique, road to fitness and an emphasis on speed, recovery and agility that was never dreamed of when players went out on the lash and even ate steak before matches.....time never stands still.
A revealing post on BTPIR this morning about 'the good old days'.......
I remember my father in law (still alive after the stroke 5 years ago but in a bad way) talking about when they owned/managed/ran the Poppins restaurant down by the harbour, (bit like a Wimpey)

I think he was good friends with the manager at the time - Allan Brown. There was an arrangement ( sort of sponsorship) that all the players could come down for a slap up full English breakfast - bacon , eggs, sausage, beans etc after they had completed their mid week training session - good PR for the restaurant.

How times have changed ! ( Although based on what I have seen this season so far a lot of the players look as though they have downed a full Big Mac meal with extra fries plus a McFlurry 10 minutes before kick off)

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Post by budegull1954 »

You really couldn't make it up........Michee Efete suffers a dislocated finger in training. Probably out for a while no doubt. Gruesome picture posted online. (Daily Mail online - football news)
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Post by budegull1954 »

The link for the story is via the NewsNow website:
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/904107657?-1910:1011:0
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Post by Southampton Gull »

Nicholsons fault obviously........
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Post by gullsdiv2 »

budegull1954 wrote: 28 Sep 2017, 16:44 You really couldn't make it up........Michee Efete suffers a dislocated finger in training. Probably out for a while no doubt. Gruesome picture posted online. (Daily Mail online - football news)
How would a dislocated finger keep a defender out? Strap it up and get on with it!
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Post by Gulliball »

This is confirmation bias. If you take a side that's played 12, won 0 then literally any individual aspect can be used as evidence that we're doing something wrong.

No-one complained about fitness when we finished the last two seasons stronger than other sides. If I am a supporter of Kevin Nicholson then I could use the examples that we finished strongly in both seasons under Nicholson as proof that his training and fitness programmes must be better than other teams - but it would just be the same confirmation bias from the other extreme.

As a more general point, and as with pretty much every other topic on this board, the reality of the situation is that for the last 2.5 years we've been at the lowest ebb in the club's entire history and in that situation you're not going to get many examples of groundbreaking success. If as a club you're unable to afford transport to take your first team to first team fixtures then it's fair to say there's not much in the way of infrastructure to expect a 'professional club'.

The best long-term judge of how well Kevin Nicholson actually did in the circumstances he was in will be the managers that came in before and after him. We know that Paul Cox walked away after 10 games because the money the club could afford to pay was not enough for him & he didn't want to work under those circumstances. On the pitch, his side had 10 points after 10 games, which is a ratio that would get you relegated.

Owers is coming in now in a reasonably similar situation to Nicholson, who was appointed 2 years ago today. After a slow start he did turn us around and got 31 points from the final 15 games. Overall Nicholson picked up 41 points from 34 games, and if Owers does the same ratio over his 36 games, we'd pick up 44 points during his spell and finish on 47 points.

That might not be enough to survive, but the team he is inheriting now does at least have some quality in it, it is just too small and with too many injured at one time. On paper at least it is a long way above the quality of the Geohaghon, Fenwick, Carmichael, Briscoe, Lavelle-Moore etc that started the 3-7 Bromely fixture before Nicholson took over. I suspect that is the basis of his 'lottery' comments that have been so badly received given our current position.

I really don't think who we have in charge will make much of a difference in the near future. Our biggest threat is losing our ground and our future, and the only way we'll improve is with off-field change. For the last 3 years we've had to spread the resources around so thinly that something will always burst. If you go with promising young players, they don't have the experience. If you try to go get experienced players, they have some other defect that puts them in our price range. If you go with a high quality, low quantity squad, injuries kill you. We've tried every route to get around it, but you'll only get so far. Our best players have been loans and mid-season signings when slightly higher quality is available, but then you have a constant conveyer belt of players and nothing is settled, and every summer you have to start again.

I don't see how Owers will come into the club and do anything differently in the long term if he's working in the same conditions. If he performs as well as Nicholson then we'll be on the verge of relegation/survival. Any worse and we get relegated, but it would need a superhuman effort to actually make any difference and move us up a level into mid-table boredom.
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Post by MellowYellow »

gullsdiv2 wrote: 28 Sep 2017, 17:38 How would a dislocated finger keep a defender out? Strap it up and get on with it!
Exactly, how can a dislocated finger keep you out! No need to strap it up, just push it back in. Two second job. Watch!
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Post by Jerry »

Gulliball wrote: 28 Sep 2017, 18:09
No-one complained about fitness when we finished the last two seasons stronger than other sides.
Really? People (including managers and players of opposing sides) have flagged up the poor fitness of our players pretty consistently for the last 2 years.
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Post by Dave »

My last post made in this thread was not 100 % aimed at the current situation at TUFC, it was in part, but also in part, I was generalising, of course I have no idea what sort of warm up routines, or even if a warm down routine takes place, don't know what was/is done in training, or if our players are on any kind and strict diet regime.

It doesn't matter how careful you are, or what measures you put in place to try an avoid the injuries from happening in the first place, in all sports injuries from time to time will occur. Keeping the thread on topic, I'm no expert and never claim to be right, but, I have formed the opinion some time ago our team are not properly fit to play 90 minutes of football to anything like the level of intensity required, that opinion has not changed since, the fact we finished the last two seasons strongly, to me, was more a shift in player mentality than anything else.

This is not meant to be Nicho bashing, however does need to be said. A year ago it appears we were discussing why so many players were pulling up with muscle injuries, as said a year down the line we're in the self same situation, two seasons in a row,the same timing, our players once again are breaking down with muscle pulls, strains and tears.

This to me, in my humble opinion, isn't down to any bias because we at 0 wins from our opening 12 games, it's not evidence that the club are doing something wrong, it's full on damming evidence the club 'ARE' doing something wrong. No club is that unlucky to sustain a similar number and type's of injury at the same stage of the season, two seasons on the bounce, I would indeed bow to qualified professional knowledge, but to me, these injuries are linked to incorrect player fitness/conditioning , and training.
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Post by Gulliball »

Pittman has been here 2 months, Dowling about three weeks - what on earth can you do to someone in that time to make them more injury prone? Clarke did his back, Gosling his ankle, Davis his foot, Lee had a heart scare, Lavercombe ankle, Efete finger - all within a few weeks of joining us. There's no pattern to any of our recent injuries that I can see.
Jerry wrote: 28 Sep 2017, 19:56 Really? People (including managers and players of opposing sides) have flagged up the poor fitness of our players pretty consistently for the last 2 years.
Other than one line from Garry Hill (which was hardly an in depth comment) who else from outside the club has flagged this? It would be a pretty strange thing to do about another club.

And yes, when we went on winning runs, no-one thought to comment how unfit the players looked. If you want a very rough sample, then there have been 86 posts on here using the word fitness since the season began, and 9 for the same spell at the end of last season - 4 of which were Dan Sparkes failing a fitness test before a game.
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