Torquay United Official Supporters Club (TUOSC)

Alpine Joe · Post by **Alpine Joe** » 28 Sep 2016, 09:05

plainmoor78

Let me remind of the one sent on 26th August 2016. It reports on a meeting between TUST and the club board. Under the heading Supporter Engagement it reported as follows:
'David Philips did however recognise the need to facilitate a fans forum in the near future as promised. However, in the short term it was felt this may not be as fruitful an exercise as anticipated. TUST would support this view.'

All Football League clubs are bound by regulations which demand that they hold at least two Fans Forums each season, open to ALL sections of the fan base. This of course is designed to make it much more difficult for owners to marginalise or freeze out one section of the clubs fans. But being a National League side there is nothing to prevent the club and TUST deciding they'd like to meet each other more often (they'd recently upped it to monthly meetings) while at the same time for TUST to connive with, or at least appear to discourage the club from holding meetings such as Fans Forums which would allow non TUST members to attend.

The disappointing thing is that TUST members seem to positively lap up their privilege....or to uses Hector's term, they seem to very much enjoy the fact that they're now much more 'equal' than the rest of us. If nothing else, TUST should have the good grace to stop attempting to use the term 'Supporters Representatives' for themselves, as the evidence becomes ever clearer that they represent the viewpoint of only one section of the club's overall support (probably not even the majority) ....and the more they're treated as Teacher's pets, the further alienated the rest of the fan base will become.

jimhart · Post by **jimhart** » 28 Sep 2016, 10:01

Hi
I have been a member of TUST for several years.
I joined as i felt all assistance to Torquay United was welcome.
I thought it had funded some projects for the club but my memory may be mistaken.
It now seems that it is solely for setting up a Community Club subject to sufficient finance and thats fine.
It seems to me there is still room for the traditional "Supporters and Juniors Club " role.
We have had difficult years and over this period there has been a blame culture on all sides.
Can we not bury personal hatchets for the sake of TUFC.
I know nothing about this Masters person but i would except financial help from any genuine source,
however the last prospective owners were given far too much time.
The Board have made mistakes but they are all we have got at present.
Lets stick together.
I shall be joining the new supporters club.

freddisley · Post by **freddisley** » 28 Sep 2016, 10:55

I am a little concerned that there are posters to this forum who seek for whatever reason to undermine the work of the TUST, I am a member but recognise that the TUST may never be in a position to run the club in ways that other trusts do. It is an embryonic group who have yet to convince me that they have the experience or capital to run such a venture. Regardless of this I am willing for them to be given the opportunity to represent us supporters.
Yes,they may give the impression that they are grateful for the opportunity to have serious discussions with the board on various matters but surely this a step forward, first of all you need the invitation to the top table before anyone can actually asks you for your views. The alternative is shout inane abuse from the pop side and that really has no influence at all but may make the shouter a lot better for a short while. I hope and believe that the TUST are playing the long game, and that's what our club needs ,a long term solution not leaping from crisis to crisis as each season unfolds.

Alpine Joe · Post by **Alpine Joe** » 28 Sep 2016, 13:31

fredisley

I am a little concerned that there are posters to this forum who seek for whatever reason to undermine the work of the TUST,

At least it's good to know that your concern doesn't stem from seeing opinions being aired on the subject that don't tally with your own. Having a brighter light shone on the 'work' of TUST, and a light than shines further, therefore bringing their recent utterances and opinions into view for a wider audience, rather than just to TUST members themselves, shouldn't in any way undermine the work itself......unless they were, for instance, embarrassed about the wider fanbase finding out what they'd been saying on certain subjects.

Rest assured Fred, the TUST know it would be highly hypocritical, if they were advocating 'critical friends' for everyone else, but just not for themselves.

'Transparency' is their byword, they'll be particularly keen for all opinions, favourable or not , to get a fair airing, and should have no reason to feel undermined by allowing another voice to speak.

Lloyder5 · Post by **Lloyder5** » 28 Sep 2016, 15:12

You are right there is no reason why the TUST dealings should not be in the open, unless of course it has undertaken to keep a matter confidential for whatever reason. Indeed, how else will it widen its membership if non-member do not have the opportunity to judge its work and decide to support it or not. I do though think, there are those who just don't like the kind of grass-roots, collective action that TUST represents

gullpower · Post by **gullpower** » 28 Sep 2016, 20:30

jimhart wrote:Hi
I have been a member of TUST for several years.
I joined as i felt all assistance to Torquay United was welcome.
I thought it had funded some projects for the club but my memory may be mistaken.
It now seems that it is solely for setting up a Community Club subject to sufficient finance and thats fine.
It seems to me there is still room for the traditional "Supporters and Juniors Club " role.
We have had difficult years and over this period there has been a blame culture on all sides.
Can we not bury personal hatchets for the sake of TUFC.
I know nothing about this Masters person but i would except financial help from any genuine source,
however the last prospective owners were given far too much time.
The Board have made mistakes but they are all we have got at present.
Lets stick together.
I shall be joining the new supporters club.

Peter Masters is a property developer whose only interest is lining his own pockets - just like the last prospective owners.

There is no white knight coming to save us - if there was he would have arrived already.

That leaves community/fan ownership which I believe is the best hope of securing the long term future of the club. I also think that TUST with the help of Supporters Direct offer the best hope of achieving fan ownership. TUST is an open, transparent and democratic group, which makes the accusations of militancy ring a little hollow. Passionate and enthusiastic yes, but not militant.

I agree with Jim that we should be sticking together. For me the jury is still out. Before I join I will wait to see if TUOSC has been set up as a rival to TUST or whether they will compliment and actively work with TUST.

I would also say to those who are wary of TUST to look at the wider picture, take a look at the Supporters Direct website and see what they have achieved at other clubs. Also, I think it's obvious to all supporters, that whether it's TUST or not, whoever or whatever gets the gig, the task of turning the club around and creating a sustainable future for the club will have a f###### hard job on their hands.

hector · Post by **hector** » 28 Sep 2016, 22:56

TUOSC has clearly been set up to at least muddy the waters in relation to TUST. It has links to Peter Masters and you don't have to dig very far to discover his contempt for supporters who do not meekly do as they are told.

With the likes of Alpine Joe (probably the most entertaining poster) doing his best to quash anything that looks like agitation, it helps to paint the fanbase as disunited, a rabble, perhaps but then it has been reported that Alpine Joe was a firm supporter of Chris Roberts, so his view of supporters has a 'history', I suspect.

Glostergull · Post by **Glostergull** » 29 Sep 2016, 05:14

If you all take a moment to sit back and digest the opinions of the posters on here, then try to imagine that you have worked and built up a pot of gold and was in a position to finance the club. what would your requirements be. if you have worked hard for the money you have amassed. would you not expect to be the one having financed the club to call the tune. and would any of you be extremely annoyed if all you got was grief for all your efforts. what would you think for example if you put in a million to take the club forward for the next two years and we didn't get promotion. and ended up with vitriol and critism from members on this forum. and some from outside who are prepared to ring you up late at night to harass you and threaten you. what would you expect. and given that we have such violently opposed members on here already. from the totally negative Brucie and Wivel to Hector or Alpine joe or Emet Edads beard. Oil beefed hooked or even me, etc. with wildly differing opinions (and everyone is entitled to an opinion even Brucie and Wivel) my point is. no matter who comes in and puts money in. (and I suspect there are some out there who have the money but see the reactions of football fans who seem to think they are entitled to dictate what and where the money should go but won't want to invest as they don't want the aggro). Will want to have the major say in what happens at the club. if we want to put our own money up to buy the club then we can expect to have the major say in what happens. but others will more than likely end up in charge and we will have to accept that if we want the investment then we will have to accept that they call the tune. and if they don't like the aggro from certain sections of the fanbase then they will not want to interact with them.,@"';:\|?/.,<> There some grammatical aggro for you to chew on as you no doubt will want to pull punches over the grammar.

:na:

gullpower · Post by **gullpower** » 29 Sep 2016, 06:51

Glostergull wrote:If you all take a moment to sit back and digest the opinions of the posters on here, then try to imagine that you have worked and built up a pot of gold and was in a position to finance the club. what would your requirements be. if you have worked hard for the money you have amassed. would you not expect to be the one having financed the club to call the tune. and would any of you be extremely annoyed if all you got was grief for all your efforts. what would you think for example if you put in a million to take the club forward for the next two years and we didn't get promotion. and ended up with vitriol and critism from members on this forum. and some from outside who are prepared to ring you up late at night to harass you and threaten you. what would you expect. and given that we have such violently opposed members on here already. from the totally negative Brucie and Wivel to Hector or Alpine joe or Emet Edads beard. Oil beefed hooked or even me, etc. with wildly differing opinions (and everyone is entitled to an opinion even Brucie and Wivel) my point is. no matter who comes in and puts money in. (and I suspect there are some out there who have the money but see the reactions of football fans who seem to think they are entitled to dictate what and where the money should go but won't want to invest as they don't want the aggro). Will want to have the major say in what happens at the club. if we want to put our own money up to buy the club then we can expect to have the major say in what happens. but others will more than likely end up in charge and we will have to accept that if we want the investment then we will have to accept that they call the tune. and if they don't like the aggro from certain sections of the fanbase then they will not want to interact with them.,@"';:\|?/.,<> There some grammatical aggro for you to chew on as you no doubt will want to pull punches over the grammar. :na:

So are you saying, that a cooperative made up of a wide fan base, where those that run the club are appointed by a democratically elected board, and those members, of the said cooperative, regardless of how much they invest, have one vote, so that those who can only invest a minimum amount can have an equal voice with all other members, should run the club?

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 29 Sep 2016, 07:18

Gee if this supporters club HAS been started just to create a problem with TUST, well it beggers belief. All this bl**dy politics really bores me. Again if its true there can only be one motive, Money again. It might not be obvious, but it will be there somewhere. Why don't they just join TUST?

Not keen on the idea of 1 vote for any amount of money you invest. in fact not keen on 1 share one vote either, because 1 guy just buys 51%. Perhaps there is a half way house somewhere.

hector · Post by **hector** » 29 Sep 2016, 07:58

Neal wrote:Gee if this supporters club HAS been started just to create a problem with TUST, well it beggers belief. All this bl**dy politics really bores me. Again if its true there can only be one motive, Money again. It might not be obvious, but it will be there somewhere. Why don't they just join TUST?

Not keen on the idea of 1 vote for any amount of money you invest. in fact not keen on 1 share one vote either, because 1 guy just buys 51%. Perhaps there is a half way house somewhere.

The idea of TUST though, is that from poorest to the wealthiest fan, it is one fan's club as much as the other. You pay your £24 per year (twenty-four quid a year - that's all it is) and you get your vote the same as anyone else - pay anything else (such as your £5 per month lottery, or £1000s if you can afford it) and that is simply a donation. As much as it would stick in Alpine Joe's craw (he would prefer a wealthy elite telling the serfs what they should think and do), once you pay your £24, your vote is as equal as anyone else's.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 29 Sep 2016, 13:15

Alpine Joe wrote: The disappointing thing is that TUST members seem to positively lap up their privilege....or to uses Hector's term, they seem to very much enjoy the fact that they're now much more 'equal' than the rest of us. If nothing else, TUST should have the good grace to stop attempting to use the term 'Supporters Representatives' for themselves, as the evidence becomes ever clearer that they represent the viewpoint of only one section of the club's overall support (probably not even the majority) ....and the more they're treated as Teacher's pets, the further alienated the rest of the fan base will become.

AJ - I enjoy your brilliant match reports on the TFF Forum but I don't understand your opposition to TUST. I am a TUST member and certainly don't (quote) 'positively lap up their privilege' or 'enjoy the fact that they're now much more 'equal' than the rest of us'. That is cr*p. I, and mates who are members, have joined TUST because we support their aims. That is our decision and we realise that there are fans who choose not to join, that is their decision, and fans who just attend matches now and then and couldn't care less about what else is going on at Plainmoor. I have never felt that TUST use the term 'Supporters Representatives' solely to describe themselves.

Turning to the Supporters Club, no one has responded to my query about it being properly constitured. At last Saturday's so-called launch, there was this guy Bernard Noble and the 'first two members'. Where were the rest of the committee? Why hasn't a public meeting been called to properly elect a chairman etc? In my opinion, the dodgy microphone very aptly represents this enterprise ! As for the mugs - sorry, members (my spellcheck is malfunctioning) - who pay their ten quid, surely that would be better paid into the Players Fund? Say the Supporters Club attract 150 members, that £1500 would be of much greater use in the Players Fund. I agree with JimHart - there aren't that many of us loyal fans so let's stick together for the sake of TUFC and not divide into various factions.

fred disley · Post by **fred disley** » 29 Sep 2016, 19:21

Heaven forbid that all who post here should agree, what a boring forum it would be. I do enjoy the contributions of Hector ,alpinejoe,Plainmoor 78 etc, the one thing they have in common and probably the only thing is that they have an affection for the club,or else why would they feel the need to contribute.
I have an issue with one thread of this posting in that cooperative or community ownership by its very nature as people have already mentioned, everyone is equal and has a vote. if you continue that logically then should we all receive a phone call, text or e mail every time we wish to sign someone, change the menu in the restaurant, alter the home strip, do a forest green and go vegan in the food outlets and the thousand other decisions that are made every season, well unless you have nothing going on in your life off course you don't. So you devolve these decisions to a committee or board of your choosing.When you disagree with there decisions as on occasions you will what do you do, you learn to live with it , that's democracy.
While I am at it could someone explain how the TUST can be accused of being militant in one breath and hopelessly grateful on the other for being invited to a meeting with the board, both surely cannot be right.

Alpine Joe · Post by **Alpine Joe** » 29 Sep 2016, 19:30

tomogull, thankyou for the first ten words at least

I'm sure you realise that it's just as possible for someone to post here next week stating: 'I, and mates who are members, have joined TUOSC because we support their aims. That is our decision and we realise that there are fans who choose not to join', and who will be objecting to your labelling of him and his mates as 'mugs'

By providing this useful service to TUST members or supporters, by being a critical friend to them, and helping out by shining a light on some of their statements to test them for truthfulness, or if you prefer, accuracy, it has to be a good thing. I'll give you an example of what I mean. Let's take last Saturday when the bit about the new supporters club in the matchday programme clearly stated 'A priority of the TUOSC will be to help the Players Fund'. Add to that the big screen periodically flashes up the message 'TUOSC proud to support the Players Fund'. The message from Kevin Nicholson stated 'I urge you to join the TUOSC' ....and why would he do that ? Because it was obvious, even to a blind man, that the TUOSC is an attempt to give out little more than a small piece of plastic with 'Official Supporters Club' printed on it, in order to try and bring in funds for the players fund. You might also get a complementary balloon at Christmas...but it's overriding purpose is patently to raise cash for the players fund.

Then when you read the exact opposite of what is really happening such as 'absolutelythirdrate's' fourth-rate comment on this thread: 'This new initiative will only divert much needed funds away from other more important issues such as the players fund. I was there on Saturday'. You wonder how the hell no one explains to the poor guy he's come way having got things absolutely the wrong way about, despite having actually being there.

Or a TUST member who posted 'As for the mugs - sorry, members (my spellcheck is malfunctioning) - who pay their ten quid, surely that would be better paid into the Players Fund? Say the Supporters Club attract 150 members, that £1500 would be of much greater use in the Players Fund'.

The more the light is shone, the more people might be willing to question whether it really is a choice between Supporters club membership or the players fund....and if it really is...whyever would Nico be pushing us towards the Supporters club ?......or if they're unwittingly been fed duff information.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 29 Sep 2016, 20:02

Alpine Joe is right. In the club's present financial situation, Nico needs the assistance provided by the players Fund. The TUOSC will support the Players Fund. To my knowledge, TUST has not officially supported the Players Fund; it has different priorities. Doubtless as soon as the TUOFC has attracted sufficient interested parties, it will hold an inaugural meeting to agree a formal constitution and rules. TUOFC and TUST will have different aims, but are not mutually exclusive, and we all want the same thing for TUFC: survival, success on the pitch, and a sustainable and glorious future.

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