Paul Buckles Head

[Fletch]

I don't wish to labour the point, but the answer to 4-4-2 with O'Kane is to drop Wroe. I don't see a downside. We simply ask that Manse works a little harder and that EoK gets stuck in. I don't see Nicky Wroe making dozens of tackles in a match, this is simply something else he doesn't do well.
Matt.

Thats hardly a valid suggestion Matt. Manse is already covering pretty much every blade of grass as it is. Nicky W (although I also think he's having a bad spell) is certainly spending more time than he used to defending. EoK simply does not have the build to play in CM at the moment. When it was tried in PSFs he was getting bumped off the ball and play usually just passed him by. He doesnt seem to have the speed to be an out and out winger either so realistically, the only place for him to play at the moment is in the hole behind a lone striker, something that may suffice for away matches but surely not to be played at home. Im sure that if he gets working out with Bevs he will become more suitable for CM but at present? No way...

[Fonda]

I'm not sure i agree that just because he doesn't have lightening pace, he can't play wide. He's not a complete slouch. Ryan Giggs still plays on Man Ut'd left-wing, and he doesn't have great pace anymore. Indeed, our own Wayne Carlisle doesn't rely on speed to cause defenders problems. O'Kane is an intelligent footballer, and would offer a different kind of threat to opposition full-backs. Eunan's intelligence, skill and passing ability or Danny's speed? I know which i'd choose. The role he's definitely made for is 'in the hole', but i'm afraid the potency of the whole team has been affected since the inception of that formation. At least lets try him wide before writing him off.

[Fletch]

Fonda, I did say

He doesnt seem to have the speed to be an out and out winger

Im sure even EoK himself would admit that.

I didnt say he couldnt play on the left wing (like Cole did at Chelski fo instance). I just happen to think we need speed on the wings to get crosses in for Benners & AN Other. Zebs fills the role perfectly on the right wing. We just need another Lorz for the left

[Fonda]

Yeah, he's not an 'out-and-out' winger in the football-dictionary definition of the perfect wide-man. But the point i'm making is that it doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't perform well there. The ideal winger would obviously have pace amongst his attributes, but it's not the only skill they need. And many 'wingers' without pace have been successful.

[Dave]

I don't wish to labour the point, but the answer to 4-4-2 with O'Kane is to drop Wroe. I don't see a downside. We simply ask that Manse works a little harder and that EoK gets stuck in. I don't see Nicky Wroe making dozens of tackles in a match, this is simply something else he doesn't do well.

Matt.

sorry double posted some how :Oops:

[Dave]

Matt,your not labouring a point,you are expressing an opinion which you strongly believe to be correct,there is nothing wrong with that,however other poster's do have the right to dissargee with you.

I dissagree with you for a simple reason,during the pre-season friendlies,o'kane did play central midfield 4-4-2 i would not say he struggled like a fish out of water,he struggled worse than a fish in water,it was not pretty,and the reason why i suspect that buckle has not put him back there.

[Fonda]

The other drawback of O'Kane playing in the centre of the pitch, is that he would spend so much time 'battling' that we'd likely lose the parts of his game that make him so special in the first place. Part of the reason that Wroe looks increasingly inneffective now is that he's having to spend more of his time in deeper positions. In the BSP, he spent much of his time in more advanced areas, and was able to influence games (in an attacking sense) more.

[Dave]

My view on this is why oh why does Paul Buckle or any fan want to over complicate this,the point ive already made on this thread,is o'kane played wide midfield for colraine,and was very sucsessful ,surely the irish premier league is eqaul if not slightly better than league 2 so why not?,please some one tell me.

The point ive made endlessly during debate's regarding our midfield,is during our long unbeaten clean sheet run,we played 4-4-2,with yep you guessed it,Mansell/Wroe ,..its proved...it works,so again why over complicate it.

The thing with Nicky Wroe,yes he is in a bad run of form,but something has been completely missed here,we are playing 4-5-1,with o'kane pushing forward,and Wroe sitting in midfield,he is a league 2 player being asked to do a job on field thats alien to him and as we saw in the world cup,there's a few premier league players that can not step out of there comfort zone either,Wroe is an attacking midfielder that likes to get hold of the ball and oush forward,he is not,and has never been a midfield tackler...ther really is no wonder he is not playing well right now.

I think Buckle is trying to find a way of playing that not only helps bring in o'kane,also he been trying to involve Gritton aswell,to me back to basics,4-4-2 with Mansell/Wroe,and if that means no o'kane,or Grittion,then so be it,this game is about results.

[yellow]

Spot on young Forza.

[ferrarilover]

Oh, this sucks, we have to many good players, bring back all the rubbish, I say, that way the first XI picks itself.

I do see the very valid argument that EoK is too small for CM in the battlegrounds of L2, but we cannot possibly leave out the best footballer at the club because we haven't a place for him. Nor can we include useless Wroe simply because he is a bit bigger than our alternatives. I suggested on another thread, why not play 4-3-1-2?
The back 5 pick themselves, then (the following players can be swapped, their names are used for ease and brevity) Stevens, Lamby and Wayno as a central three with EoK in front, just behind the front two. When we have the ball, Stevens and Carlisle get wide, when we lost it, they tick in and EoK drops back to male a central 4.

Matt.

[Lloyder5]

The other drawback of O'Kane playing in the centre of the pitch, is that he would spend so much time 'battling' that we'd likely lose the parts of his game that make him so special in the first place. Part of the reason that Wroe looks increasingly inneffective now is that he's having to spend more of his time in deeper positions. In the BSP, he spent much of his time in more advanced areas, and was able to influence games (in an attacking sense) more.

That is the point I have been labouring to make on other threads. I'm suffering from Nicky Wroe-syndrome, can't find that killer sentence at the moment! Too much huffing and puffing.

[Dave]

Oh, this sucks, we have to many good players, bring back all the rubbish, I say, that way the first XI picks itself.

I do see the very valid argument that EoK is too small for CM in the battlegrounds of L2, but we cannot possibly leave out the best footballer at the club because we haven't a place for him. Nor can we include useless Wroe simply because he is a bit bigger than our alternatives. I suggested on another thread, why not play 4-3-1-2?
The back 5 pick themselves, then (the following players can be swapped, their names are used for ease and brevity) Stevens, Lamby and Wayno as a central three with EoK in front, just behind the front two. When we have the ball, Stevens and Carlisle get wide, when we lost it, they tick in and EoK drops back to male a central 4.

Matt.

I am not trying to fall out with you matt,football is a game full of massive opinions we all have them,and in many respects different opinions in football are not wrong,if you get what iam trying to say .

I do see what your saying,however i do not think there is a need to go 4-3-1-2,we went from shrewsbury last season up to southend this unbeaten,and 998 minutes with out shipping a goal,playing simple old 4-4-2 with mansell/wroe in midfield,iam just saying,return to what clearly is a tried and tested formula that clearly works for our team,it's proved.

O'kane does fit in to 4-4-2,said it twice will say it again played for colraine as a wide midfielder,he was sucsessful,so much so,that he had us ,half of league 2 and league 1 clubs chasing him.

Put O'kane in wide midfiled in a 4-4-2 either right,or cutting in from the left and give him ago,then we have something simple that league 2 players can play.

[Un_hang_able]

Carlisle and O'Kane are our best footballers.

Benyon our best finsher.

Zebs is our best combination of pace/strengh.

Branston is our best Pickler.

So. Really it is quite easy to suggest (once everyone is proper fit) the following set up which perhaps we can work at:

4 3 3

Senda----Ellis----Branston----Nicholson

-----WayneO---Mansell---Wroe---

-----Zebs-----Benyon---O'Kane


Bench : Robertson, Gritts, Stevens, Kee, et al.

We basically keep Benyon going up front running the line. Zebs and O'Kane to have a free-er range to drop back to get the ball, or move wider at times, BUT also to provide support for hard-working Benyon. Wayno to use his guile, passing and experience to play a role linking Zebs and attack minded Senda (ie, he can bolster cover for Senda, and still provide crosses from deep if required). Manse and Wroe to be more defensive, but with Nicho being encouraged to bomb-on in support of O'Kane.

Subs: Robbo is great cover for RB and CB's, or to bring in at right back if we do not want so much attack from right-full-back.

But in the end I say, at this point : !!! ATTACK !!! ......but have Wayno'n'Wroe has a bit of security, dropping back covering for bombing-on fullbacks.

[YellowMurphy]

What got us our great start to the season?

4-4-2!

Bevan

Nico
Branston
Ellis
Robbo

Carlisle
Wroe
Mansell
Zebroski

Kee
Benyon

[Fonda]

Home...

----------------------Bevs
Senda------Ellis------------Branno------Nico
Zebs-------Manse----------Wroe------O'Kane
-------------Kee-----------Benners

Away...

-----------------------Bevs
Robbo--------Ellis----------Branno--------Nico
Carlisle-----Manse----------Wroe--------O'Kane
--------------Zebs----------Benners