Torquay United v Maidenhead, Match Day Thread 03/10/17

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Torquay United v Maidenhead, Match Day Thread 03/10/17

Post by MellowYellow » 01 Oct 2017, 18:10

Many say it's all in the preparation as we look for our first win against the part-timers of Maidenhead FC.

So how will the Maidenhead players gear themselves up for the game.

Interesting article in the Non-League Paper at the beginning of the season on that topic. The player being interviewed (still their top goal-scorer) has now moved to Barnet.

Its a real eye-opener.

https://www.thenonleaguefootballpaper.c ... our-goals/
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Post by forevertufc » 01 Oct 2017, 18:22

Massive game indeed, one that needs to be won, against a Maidenhead side that won 4 of their last 6 games, so no easy task.

Just one point MY. Why do you seem to have, such a hang up on part-time sides, seen you mention this a lot in posts lately, maybe I've misunderstood where you coming perhaps. Just to point out, if I've got this right, think there are only 4 teams in the top half who are full time teams, and the team with the biggest fan base, and probably budget are sat 17th right, nothings guaranteed in football.


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Post by merse btpir » 01 Oct 2017, 18:46

There's very little difference between a modern and progressive use of part-time players when set against full-time professionals' time with the management and training/fitness programmes given to them; only really in the almost ever present need to travel on the day of a game rather than the day before; and as we have been seeing ever since we fell into this league for the second time Torquay United's use of full-time with their players has never been effectively put to use.

Look at that league table as it stands tonight:

1: Dover ~ part time
2: Dagenham ~ full time
3: Sutton Utd ~ part time
4: Macclesfield ~ full time
5: Maidstone ~ part time
6: Wrexham ~ full time
7: Woking ~ part time
8: Aldershot ~' full time
9: Maidenhead ~ part time
10: Halifax ~ part time
11: Boreham Wood ~ full time
12: Ebbsfleet ~ full time
13: Bromley ~ part time
14: Gateshead ~ full time
15: Leyton Orient ~ full time
16: Eastleigh ~ full time
17: Tranmere ~ full time
18: Hartlepool ~ full time
19: Fylde ~ full time
20: Barrow ~ full time
21: Chester ~ full time
22: Guiseley ~ part time
23: Solihull ~ part time
24: Torquay ~ full time


A 15:9 ratio in favour of full time over part time but an improportionate number of full timers failing to make that perceived 'advantage' work for them.


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Post by Dazza » 01 Oct 2017, 19:48

Interesting stuff Merse.

I must confess I don't know the difference. I thought part time meant training full sessions twice a week as opposed to three but I'm sure it's not that simple. However I take your point being part time ensures you have to travel on the day of the game. For some teams that's obviously more of a disadvantage than others and TUFC don't score well here ft or pt.

From personal observation those who look as if you can pick out as part time are those looking more regularly disorientated in the first twenty minutes of a game but again this may be my hopeful or prejudiced eyes as opposed to fact.

There has to be a perceived advantage somewhere otherwise the Ebsfeets, Fylde's, and Boreham Woods of this world wouldn't be responding to it.

I would be interesting in knowing more here.

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Post by MellowYellow » 01 Oct 2017, 20:02

merse btpir wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 18:46
There's very little difference between a modern and progressive use of part-time players when set against full-time professionals'
[/b]
And that's the concept I cannot get my head around. I have a son who is a GB elite athlete and there is no way he could possibly work full-time or even part-time and maintain his fitness levels to compete at the highest level and more importantly build the recovery time into the training program where the real training effect takes place as the body adapts to the stress of exercise. In fact, if he veered off his training program to earn a few bob he would be dropped from the squad. So he survives off sponsorship and race winnings. And yet in the National League full time and part time teams/players sit side by side. Don't take me wrong I have a lot of respect for footballers who are part-time because it is not the easiest thing in the world to work a full-time or even part-time week and then go to training on a Tuesday and Thursday night and then be able to find the recovery time to prepare themselves properly for a game on a Tuesday/Saturday. However, there should be a dramatic gap between part-time and full time footballer/athletes and should ( I repeat 'should') be a bridge to far to cross. I see Woking FC are moving towards full-time next season as they believe it will help them progress and provide sustainability. In fact I think you will find all part-time clubs would like to move to full time, if finances allowed, as most part-time club (no matter what their current league positions) know that the pursuit of national league sustainability is a difficult task on a part-time basis. Of course, one can point to exceptions like Dover ( but in terms of finances and the way that they work things they are very much full time) but over the long term one can point to many more failures of part time sustainability in the national league, like Braintree, Dartford, Welling, North Ferriby etc. etc.

I'm not trying to be negative but honest and realistic, in that as a full time club we have to have higher expectations and ambitions. We have to recognise what we are as a football club - a full time professional outfit - and how we are different from part-time clubs and then making that work for us - starting with Maidenhead!.

N.B. Aren't Chester still part-time - I know last year they were looking at ways of going full time but I still think they are training three days a week . Hate to think there was another full time club in the relegation zone, that is only reserved for part-time clubs with the exception of us, of course.
Last edited by MellowYellow on 01 Oct 2017, 20:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by merse btpir » 01 Oct 2017, 20:37

Dazza wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 19:48
I must confess I don't know the difference. I thought part time meant training full sessions twice a week as opposed to three but I'm sure it's not that simple.

At the risk of boring a certain poster who is very anti-me, I can tell you that it was Boreham Wood's intention to remain part-time when they won promotion to the National League but realisation set in within weeks of beginning their programme of matches that they would need more time with their players and thus need to turn full-time; and this immediately cost then their manager Ian Allinson who felt unable to justify giving up his job with Carlsberg at the age he was and the salary that job gave him and so he became Director of Football and they appointed his number 2 to manage the club........Allinson subsequently left and went and managed local rivals Saint Albans City on a part-time basis


I was under the impression that Chester made the transition from part-time (3 days a week) to full-time (4 Days a week) in the summer but I might be wrong on that.
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/sport ... e-12220863

Part time these days at the most progressive clubs means training in the day time and doing one's other employment to fit in around that, and as I have already made known many of the part-time players I personally know do not even have a second 'formal job but the 'Gig' economy has been a Godsend for some to combine work with work ~ take Dan Sparkes as an example; he was a scaffolder working in the day-time but training evenings with Braintree. Now all that is changing and it's train by day at clubs like Sutton, Maidstone and Woking and (yes) the latter two are currently in 'hybrid' mode between part-time and a planned for full-time status......but there have always been full-time players who have had other careers. John Mackie who now manages Greenwich Borough has had his fruit and veg shops in North London for years and would be up at the crack of dawn to go to market before setting out his shops and only then go training at Reading, Brentford and Leyton Orient. After work at the football clubs it would be back to the shops to oversee the money and close up. Wally Downes used to hare off after training to man his fruit & veg stall in Shepherds Bush Market most days too and there have been loads of footballer/back cab drivers in London for decades.

Graham Westley made himself a millionaire combining playing and later management with running his own company.

I've met and talked to full-time players at Dagenham who supplement their low earnings by working in the evenings at places like Nandos and that is another factor.....clubs only paying what they can sustain. Boreham Wood can't match Tranmere (or even Dagenham) for wages and so they offer their players a contract where they can make supplementary money coaching in their academy and community football programme to top up their salaries and when you think about it this is a very positive move in that it earns those pr'os qualifications and a future in the game after playing.

Full-time Torquay United paying many players part t-ime money had a number of players working at Pro Direct recently and a number earning money in the health food game as part of a pyramid selling scheme.....all that fits in with the demands of travelling and irregular midweek football fixtures of which there are plenty in the Autumn but precious few until Springtime comes round again.

Going back to Braintree (and Dover for that matter when Chris Kinnear was a school teacher) evening training could only work for them because their managers ~ the Cowleys ~ were teachers themselves and so they recruited accordingly. The part-time clubs who have a day-time training schedule also need to recruit accordingly. There are many ways they skin their cats!
Last edited by merse btpir on 01 Oct 2017, 20:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MellowYellow » 01 Oct 2017, 20:49

merse btpir wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 20:37

At the risk of boring a certain poster who is very anti-me,... Boreham Wood can't match Tranmere (or even Dagenham) and so they offer their players a contract where they make supplementary money coaching in their academy and community football programme to top up their money and when you think about it this is a very positive move in that it earns those pr'os qualifications and a future in the game after playing.
I trust your first quote is not aimed at me - it would be far from the truth. Secondly, Boreham Wood approach to supplementary money makes logical sense in being an extension to their chosen sport and could be incorporated into the player's training program. As for Torquay players pyramid selling health food - is that a job?
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Post by merse btpir » 01 Oct 2017, 21:00

MellowYellow wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 20:49
I trust your first quote is not aimed at me - it would be far from the truth. Secondly, Boreham Wood approach to supplementary money makes logical sense in being an extension to their chosen sport and could be incorporated into the player's training program.
No, I was referring to tomogull.

When you think about it; Boreham Wood's module for the players dovetails perfectly with the educational module of scholar Pro /PASE Academy programmes when young footballers take the Sports Science B Tech option which ~ if pursued at level 3 ~ gives then the equivalent of 3 A Levels at successful completion of their two year programme.


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Post by westyorkshiregull » 01 Oct 2017, 21:05

Really interesting merse , where do you get so much information from ?
sad that at level 5 so little money is about when so much is being blown at the top.
Can't see in some ways how part time makes much difference apart from fitness. Cleary with talent and self disapline a part timer can perform equally aswell. Maybe when things not going so well a break away in your own career might be a refreshing change from a football club when it's struggling. They must be biting at the teeth come Saturday I would think.
Do our players have 2nd jobs , that must have a negative effect if your doing full time training and having another job to do. Perhaps not if have your business but it's a manual job can't be good.
Can we go part time , with location must pose problems with players commuting or relocating for peanuts.


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Post by merse btpir » 01 Oct 2017, 21:07

MellowYellow wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 20:49
As for Torquay players pyramid selling health food - is that a job?
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Well they could have turned up at away matches in a fleet of these! :rofl:


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Post by wivelgull » 01 Oct 2017, 21:12

Anyway, my prediction (and bearing in mind tomogull's emphasis on lack of goals):

TUFC (0) 0
Maidenhead United (1) 2

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Post by MellowYellow » 01 Oct 2017, 21:14

merse btpir wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 20:37

I was under the impression that Chester made the transition from part-time (3 days a week) to full-time (4 Days a week) in the summer but I might be wrong on that.
Yes, I think you are correct on that - they appear to have moved to stage two of going full time through training 4 days a week and moving the players from 44-week contracts to 52-week contracts. Apparently, the final stage is 5 day a week training as part of their long-term strategy to achieve full-time status, something that is key to their ultimate goal of achieving Football League status. . But this to me reaffirms my point that part-time football is beginning to be no longer sustainable at national league level.
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Post by MellowYellow » 01 Oct 2017, 21:20

wivelgull wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 21:12
Anyway, my prediction (and bearing in mind tomogull's emphasis on lack of goals):

TUFC (0) 0
Maidenhead United (1) 2

Att: 1391.
Thank you Wivelgull, that's just thrown my initial closing statement out of the window.
MellowYellow wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 20:02
We have to recognise what we are as a football club - a full time professional outfit - and how we are different from part-time clubs and then making that work for us - starting with Maidenhead!.
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Post by westyorkshiregull » 01 Oct 2017, 21:51

Keep the faith, torquay 3 maidenhead 0


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Post by forevertufc » 01 Oct 2017, 22:36

merse btpir wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 21:07
MellowYellow wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 20:49
As for Torquay players pyramid selling health food - is that a job?
Image
Well they could have turned up at away matches in a fleet of these! :rofl:
Well that truly is a smart car, if it can tell you how to lose weight :)

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