Torquay v Chester 01/04/17

Matchday topics and fixtures/results stored here.
Dave
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Post by Dave »

merse btpir wrote: 02 Apr 2017, 11:15 Well I'll start by being pedantic and tell you it is the laws of the game ; not the rules and first thing most spectators, players and coaches are unaware of is Law 12 that states:
'The referee has considerable discretion in applying the Laws; in particular, the offence of "unsporting behaviour" may be used to deal with most events that violate the spirit of the game, even if they are not listed as specific offences'

That takes care of Keating's caution ~ it was the referee's discretion. A referee ~ who incidentally was a semi-professional player himself as little as four years ago playing in the Southern League and is one identified as suitable for 'fast tracking' by the FA to being a refereeing career somewhat later than most and the idea behind that is to combat the age old complaint that "refs never played the game and so don't have a feel for it"

Law 12 also states that a red card shall be applied for :
'Denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick'

Goodbye Anderson who maybe could have made that contact within the penalty are and so (maybe Anderson thought he was doing this and got it marginally wrong) avoided a red card through the 'double jeopardy' interpretation that Fifa has instigated to avoid the 'double whammy' of penalty AND red card.

Most of the moaning about the ref is moaning about the law they are applying in reality; and the ironic part of Anderson's case is that the particular interpretation that the referee was applying yesterday came about through moaning about players cynically taking out an opponent just outside the penalty area and 'getting away with it'......we can't have our cake and eat it.
Yes, meant laws, but to me rules, laws are one and the same thing. Totally agree though, as a former coach manager locally for 10 years, I'd often ask for 5 minutes of the referee's time after a game if there was a decision I wasn't happy with, and it is amazing what you can learn when decisions are explained.

This is why I think referee's should give a few minutes of they're time, not explain everything of course, but just any big decisions, it would help us all to learn, it makes me laugh the number of times you hear a fan shout 'last man ref' and I think what's the last man got to do with it, or from a challenge 'he got the ball ref' again what's that got to do with, getting the ball does not mean automatically mean it's not a free kick, it's down to the manner of which the ball was won, and so on.
Formerly known as forevertufc
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Post by kevgull »

forevertufc wrote: 02 Apr 2017, 11:18 It's not all over, correct, however with York now on a flyer current form wise, our home, and remaining fixtures, our team now have one huge mountain to climb.

Think our fate was finally sealed when we had two straight home games against Sutton (no keeper) Guiseley( ten men) and lost them both. A team is relegated over 46 match's, still 5 to go of course, but should relegation be confirmed, it will be down to, two things, the management of the club off the field has been truly shocking, and the management on the field has not come close to being good enough, that's the truth of it.

I would lay this debacle solely at the Owners feet, as they have had ample opportunity to avoid the precarious position we find ourselves in.

Yesterday over 1800 fans turned up and paid / pre paid with Season tickets, in the effort to support TUFC and help avoid the drop.

I don't see this revenue reflected in the squad. I believe the monies have been misappropriated and our squad have been starve of the investment TUFC fans expect.
Life is like TUFC. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. :goal:
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Post by gullintwoplaces »

The referee issue has been done to death now. All I can say is that I have not often seen such venom amongst home fans towards the officials. I spoke to a couple of fans at half time who rated the ref as good on previous performances at Plainmoor, but thought he was abysmal yesterday. Many fans do have a working knowledge of the laws of the game, to my knowledge a player collapsing in a heap a good yard away from an opposing player is not foul play. The "discretion" that he applied yesterday was a one way street, in a critical game for us. Perhaps he just had an off day, but he did have an impact on the game, negative for the home side. Of course it wasn't "his fault" we lost, in the same way as it is not the fault of referees that we are in such a mess.

What was so sad yesterday is that the players gave everything during the game, if only they had done that all season. We were very unlucky to lose, and I haven't said that much recently. I can only hope we get a win at Aldershot, I am sure we'll get plenty of support.
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Post by merse btpir »

kevgull wrote: 02 Apr 2017, 11:32 I would lay this debacle solely at the Owners feet, as they have had ample opportunity to avoid the precarious position we find ourselves in.
Yesterday over 1800 fans turned up and paid / pre paid with Season tickets, in the effort to support TUFC and help avoid the drop.
I don't see this revenue reflected in the squad. I believe the monies have been misappropriated and our squad have been starve of the investment TUFC fans expect.
That's a ridiculous posting.....

Investment expected and investment made from monies the football club generates are a very different thing. With the ludicrous season ticket deal; how much do you think the 'nett take' would be from home games since GI took control? How much do you think the weekly running costs are and then apply that to the probability that the club is losing money once again hand over fist.

If you want to fight GI then do it properly and not throw hysterical nonsense at them totally ignoring the shocking playing standards and management of the squad in the period before they came on board.

Do not ignore the nonsense manner in which the club was run under Thea Bristow's chair that led to the last regime having to come in and apply life support.

That 'investment' from the season ticket holders is gone on players like Young and McGinty at best who in reality are very bang average National League players and a load more who aren't even that.

That 'investment' results in a cheap management solution utilising management who had no experience of managing before. That 'investment' led to the players having to drive themselves to away matches; so to say you would lay this debacle solely at the Owners feet is a daft stance to take and burying your head in the sand as to what they have actually acquired.
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Post by kevgull »

merse btpir wrote: 02 Apr 2017, 12:04 That's a ridiculous posting.....

Investment expected and investment made from monies the football club generates are a very different thing. With the ludicrous season ticket deal; how much do you think the 'nett take' would be from home games since GI took control? How much do you think the weekly running costs are and then apply that to the probability that the club is losing money once again hand over fist.

If you want to fight GI then do it properly and not throw hysterical nonsense at them totally ignoring the shocking playing standards and management of the squad in the period before they came on board.

Do not ignore the nonsense manner in which the club was run under Thea Bristow's chair that led to the last regime having to come in and apply life support.

That 'investment' from the season ticket holders is gone on players like Young and McGinty at best who in reality are very bang average National League players and a load more who aren't even that.

That 'investment' results in a cheap management solution utilising management who had no experience of managing before. That 'investment' led to the players having to drive themselves to away matches; so to say you would lay this debacle solely at the Owners feet is a daft stance to take and burying your head in the sand as to what they have actually acquired.
Sorry totally disagree with your simpleton approach.

Ask your WHY at least 5 times to all failures this season or any other come to that and the root cause will always be at the Owners feet as they have the ultimate responsibility and the power to make the necessary changes.


Example:
In the relegation zone
Why
Haven't got enough points
Why
Haven't won enough games
Why
Players are not good enough
Why
Manager is not good enough
Why
Not a big enough budget or not up to the task

Who is responsible for the budget or employing someone for the task?

Simples Merse!

As for fighting GI (RSL). I'm not usually the hysterical type maybe a little passionate, a bit gobby perhaps.
I do however encourage people to work together for common cause and also loathe injustice.
Life is like TUFC. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. :goal:
MellowYellow
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Post by MellowYellow »

merse btpir wrote: 02 Apr 2017, 12:04

That's a ridiculous posting.....

That's a little condescending Merse. Are we not all singing off the same hymn sheet - just in a different key. I see where your coming from on capital and revenue but Kevgull does has a valid point and I think many others also lay this debacle solely at the Owners feet, particularly GI as they are the primary decision makers and hold all the purse strings, at this moment in time,
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Post by merse btpir »

I agree with all you say MellowYellow ~ and you do say only 'a little condescending' .

That the struggle is currently as hard as it is; is a factor down to the current owners yes. But it is also far more down to the poor strategies and management in assembling a very poor squad for this season ahead of their 'arrival'.

Strategies having to be pursued because of the poisoned chalice inherited from Thea Bristow and Co and a poor squad emanating in too much trust and belief being put in some pretty useless players by a naïve manager who is now much the wiser for that and (I know) wishing he had never done that.
Last edited by merse btpir on 02 Apr 2017, 13:47, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by desperado »

Merse condescending ? Surely not !
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Post by MellowYellow »

Agree Merse , all bar one area, namely Thea Bristow. You can blame all the cronies that hung onto her coat tails but not her . She is 'salt of earth' and a true 'Yellow'. She relied on businessmen around her to deal with the strategies while she bankrolled the club. She did all she could to help out Torquay and she did not leave without one final act of considerable generosity towards the club, writing off a debt of £3,070,201 that was owed to her through a holding company called Plainmoor Ltd. . Indeed, annual accounts for the 2014/15 financial year showed her putting a £200,000 loan into the club interest-free and with no fixed term of repayment, last year.

Now would it not be wonderful if GI went even a quarter of the way to financing the club like Thea did.
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Post by merse btpir »

The poisoned chalice inherited from Thea Bristow and Co is exactly what it was ~ a failed company owned and run by those people. What the owner decides to do as regards who they allow to run it and how they allow them to run it is their responsibility.

Jesus had a pretty sound game plan, but his fan clubs have made an awful mess of running things after he had gone as no doubt you would agree!
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Post by Plainmoor78 »

[quote=MellowYellow post_id=202913 time=1491138546 user_id=22826]
Agree Merse , all bar one area, namely Thea Bristow. You can blame all the cronies that hung onto her coat tails but not her . She is 'salt of earth' and a true 'Yellow'. She relied on businessmen around her to deal with the strategies while she bankrolled the club. [quote]

One of the brickbats aimed at GI is that they are not fans, therefore they do not have the club's interest at heart. Well as you say Thea was true yellow, but that didn't stop her **** things up. She was responsible for appointing the leaches who wrecked the club. The last thing we need are sacred cows who are beyond reproach, that includes Nico.

The major cause of our being in the relegation zone is our failure in the early part of the season to beat those teams who we knew would be relegation candidates, the type of teams we beat on the run in at the end of last season. We have gifted these teams so many points as to give them the advantage over us, and that all happened before GI came along.

Only a few weeks ago everyone was calling for Nico's head. But now you say he is being hamstrung by the owners so he is a martyr. But we knew he was hamstrung by the previous owners yet that didn't stop the calls for him go. We can't afford sacred cows, being 'true yellow' isn't enough if they are not up to the job.
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Post by lucy6lucy »

brucie wrote: 02 Apr 2017, 10:07 I was intending to go yesterday but luckily (it seems) I was unable to make it, as it would have been more frustration and disappointment. Strangely enough I attended a local game where a player was clean through on goal, fouled and a penalty was given, yet no card.

So as I understand it you only get sent of now if you foul someone outside the area - what a strange rule.

What a crucial defeat that was, but what a pity we were down to ten men as it seems that we may well have got the result we deserved with eleven men on the pitch. Hard to take - I was so disappointed when I got in and sods law all the other results really conspired against us.

Its understandable that people are saying we are down - but its not all over yet. The thing to remember is that there is not really a good team in this league, they are all rank average on the whole. So we have to see every game as winnable.

As for the incident with the stewards - well lets hope that the person reports the incident to the police. It is a common assault and given that the victim could have been seriously injured if he had fallen down the steps it is likely that the steward would be prosecuted.
Brucie is pretty bang on the money. Losing yesterday wasn't the issue, the issue was all our rivals won. This was hard to take last night and probably the same for everyone else, as the forum was very quiet last night.
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Post by desperado »

Agree Lucy, I felt bad enough walking back to the car, but the other results are just as important now and when
I heard 4 of them had won it was like the knife being twisted
Be great if Bromley could get a draw at York on tuesday but cant see it. We are really clutching at straws now
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Post by brucie »

Wouldn't worry about the other teams too much - we have it all to do that's for sure. We are going to have to win the two home games (which lets face it are winnable) and probably an away game as well. I guess we will have decent support at Aldershot (which is probably the key game now - so need to get a result in that one)
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Post by arcadia »

You can blame the Ref.
Blame the pitch
Blame the owners
Blame Anderson for making the rash challenge
But we were 0-0 with 15 minutes to go why Kev did you change it as the crowd and the team had the feeling we could get something out of the game
we made two substitutions at the same time instead of letting players settle into the game before making the second change.
The players were playing for the club on Saturday but we lost the game trying to win it instead of taking a point against the odds. Keating and Reid could have seen it out.
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