Torquay v Lincoln Tue 14th

arcadia · Post by **arcadia** » 15 Apr 2015, 19:47

Scott Brehaut wrote:With respect, I don't need to have watched the games to know that the wages available to CH were next to nothing due to hangers on.

I'm not saying we didn't underachieve - I'm fully aware we did - but let's see what he can do with an almost clean slate next season.

You are right and I hope you are right as I don't know!

lucy6lucy · Post by **lucy6lucy** » 15 Apr 2015, 19:52

A mid table position this season was predicted by most forum members at the start of the season and the club have delivered this to a tee after game 44. With a potential takeover imminent, CH having a clean wage slate, next season is pivotal in terms of us getting back in the league and also CH career in management. I feel optimistic and kind of looking forward to next season. Though it's not worked out this season, away matchday preparation is key so I hope the budget includes overnight stays next season, if it does been sacrificing an addition player.

Post by **Dave** » 15 Apr 2015, 20:24

Not saying this with any certainty, or knowledge, however if a taker over of the club goes through and depending on who it is and what their intentions are, I would say Chris Hargreaves position as manager I once again under threat, as is often the case new owners bring their own people in, the only way CH is guaranteed to stay, is if any taker over doesn't go through.

Kit_robin · Post by **Kit_robin** » 15 Apr 2015, 20:42

Scott, he was no doubt hampered by people like Benyon and Hawley costing us mega bucks, but I do agree with Arcadia when he says you may have a different opinion if you had watched a lot of games.

Unfortunately Hargreaves has failed to get the potential out of any of his players, be them young or old, bar an 8 game run at the beginning of the season. He has made, and continues to make, strange selection and substitution decisions. He has been out-thought tactically by the majority of his opposition this year. He has rarely had a plan B and seems incapable of ever changing a game.

That's his management. His coaching is also questionable when you consider that most players look worse now than they did in the first quarter of the season.

These are all things that you see if you go to a lot of the games. That is not a criticism of you or anyone else, and you are entitled to your alternative view. However, I do believe that you would have less faith in the manager of you had seen us play more regularly.

Post by **Scott Brehaut** » 15 Apr 2015, 20:55

I agree, it's a totally fair comment - I'm sure they have been as bad as you have all posted. When sensible posters are showing concern, rather than just the eternal bringers of doom, I do sit up and take notice.
I agree with forever too in that if a take over occurs (dependent on who it is), CH's job will probably be on the line.

However, I really do think that next season, if he is still in charge, things will be different. I have no hard evidence to back this up, but I do have a glimmer of confidence in what could happen next season with CH having an almost blank canvas.
I won't blame the new owners for getting rid though - this season hasn't been great (understatement of the year!!)

Kernowgull · Post by **Kernowgull** » 15 Apr 2015, 20:57

I have been to 3 games, so probably the same as Scott in terms of the validity of my opinion, but I do not buy the budget thing at all. I don't disagree that the budget was hampered, but a squad of Downes, Pearce, Macdonald, Young, McQuilkin, Harding, Bowman, O' Achie, Yeoman, Ajala, Cameron, Chappel, Richards and then Ives, Dawson, that other right back we had ( I haven't seen these 3 so can't really comment, but from reports I've seen) should be good enough to put in good performances on a more regular basis. The end result of midtable may have been the same, but its the performances that have been so poor where Hargreaves has really failed. Even the last two wins sound like poor overall team performances, and that squad should be better than that at this level.

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 15 Apr 2015, 21:01

The players have underperformed for sure, I'm not convinced that's solely down to the manager. If Sturrock runs for the hills when he sees the budget that tells me all i need to know.

Rjc70 · Post by **Rjc70** » 15 Apr 2015, 21:07

Scott Brehaut wrote:With respect, I don't need to have watched the games to know that the wages available to CH were next to nothing due to hangers on.

I'm not saying we didn't underachieve - I'm fully aware we did - but let's see what he can do with an almost clean slate next season.

I know it's been said before, but we mustn't forget that the parachute payment we had this season is to cover ongoing contracts. And some. We lose the lot for next season. This season, as with any relegated League 2 Club, was the best season, albeit the senior pros on the second year of their deals have clearly been awful in the main.

If we do better - and by that not out of the play-off reckoning by January and considerably nearer the play-offs than 20 points below at this stage - then it will be better than a very poor season under Hargreaves. Very poor. I guess we'll have to see what the new owners think.

leetufc · Post by **leetufc** » 15 Apr 2015, 21:47

Rjc70 wrote: I know it's been said before, but we mustn't forget that the parachute payment we had this season is to cover ongoing contracts. And some. We lose the lot for next season. This season, as with any relegated League 2 Club, was the best season, albeit the senior pros on the second year of their deals have clearly been awful in the main.

If we do better - and by that not out of the play-off reckoning by January and considerably nearer the play-offs than 20 points below at this stage - then it will be better than a very poor season under Hargreaves. Very poor. I guess we'll have to see what the new owners think.

I have to disagree with this assessment. Since the Conference went to two promotion places I think only two clubs have bounced back immediately - Shrewsbury in 2004 and Carlisle in 2005, both via the playoffs. Rovers may yet become the third, although it's not guaranteed. It is clearly an immensely difficult task to go up straight away.

I can see why it might be easier with the parachute payments as this immediately gives a team a financial advantage - we had this in 2008 and Buckle was lucky to start with a clean slate of just four players. However most teams will need this to pay for players left over - like we have.

We have been hampered by having these players on the books, which has impacted CH twofold. Firstly it limited his ability to bring in his own players and we had to settle for untried youngsters to fill the squad and eventually non-contract players. Secondly, the players he had are clearly not good enough. It's all well and good saying they are ex league players and should be good enough - but these guys got relegated from league two so there is no guarantee they can cut it in the conference - the difference in the two leagues is minimal between bottom of league two and top of the conference. Add into the fact that they are most likely suffering confidence issues after relegation and it's no wonder teams don't always mount a serious promotion challenge.

I personally don't think CH is the man to lead us forward, and I had reservations when he was first appointed. Hartlepool have shown this season what an advantage it can be to have an experienced man at the helm in a relegation battle, but that's been and gone now. However I can see that he has been disadvantaged from the off this season, although it does not excuse some of our performances and results this year.

If he is manager next season he will get a clean slate from me but I probably won't be as patient.

SWgull · Post by **SWgull** » 15 Apr 2015, 22:01

leetufc wrote: I have to disagree with this assessment. Since the Conference went to two promotion places I think only two clubs have bounced back immediately - Shrewsbury in 2004 and Carlisle in 2005, both via the playoffs. Rovers may yet become the third, although it's not guaranteed. It is clearly an immensely difficult task to go up straight away.

I can see why it might be easier with the parachute payments as this immediately gives a team a financial advantage - we had this in 2008 and Buckle was lucky to start with a clean slate of just four players. However most teams will need this to pay for players left over - like we have.

We have been hampered by having these players on the books, which has impacted CH twofold. Firstly it limited his ability to bring in his own players and we had to settle for untried youngsters to fill the squad and eventually non-contract players. Secondly, the players he had are clearly not good enough. It's all well and good saying they are ex league players and should be good enough - but these guys got relegated from league two so there is no guarantee they can cut it in the conference - the difference in the two leagues is minimal between bottom of league two and top of the conference. Add into the fact that they are most likely suffering confidence issues after relegation and it's no wonder teams don't always mount a serious promotion challenge.

I personally don't think CH is the man to lead us forward, and I had reservations when he was first appointed. Hartlepool have shown this season what an advantage it can be to have an experienced man at the helm in a relegation battle, but that's been and gone now. However I can see that he has been disadvantaged from the off this season, although it does not excuse some of our performances and results this year.

If he is manager next season he will get a clean slate from me but I probably won't be as patient.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 15 Apr 2015, 22:44

lucy6lucy wrote:A mid table position this season was predicted by most forum members at the start of the season and the club have delivered this to a tee after game 44. With a potential takeover imminent, CH having a clean wage slate, next season is pivotal in terms of us getting back in the league and also CH career in management. I feel optimistic and kind of looking forward to next season. Though it's not worked out this season, away matchday preparation is key so I hope the budget includes overnight stays next season, if it does been sacrificing an addition player.

Ha - Lucy - you're counting chickens !! We're halfway at the moment but there are still two difficult games remaining so we could conceivably drop back to 16th or 17th. I was one who thought we'd be mid-table but was expecting it to be more like 9th or 10th. I'm not expecting miracles next season but I do expect a steady rise up the table season by season so that in two or three seasons time we will be in a position to challenge for promotion. I hope Hargreaves is the man to do it as it will give us some much needed stability at the club. But if the team doesn't improve on this season, we know what the answer will be. Personally, I'm not sure that Lee Hodges is contributing much. I'd like to see an experienced player-coach such as Sean Haselgrave when Cyril Knowles was manager.

Rjc70 · Post by **Rjc70** » 15 Apr 2015, 22:46

Yes, it is a good posting by lee, SW. But the bare financial side was really what I was getting at. Other factors such as a Club being in decline etc etc will always play a part, of course. I share lee's doubts about Hargreaves. We have nothing to go on but a very poor season, sadly. And he must take a lot of the rap for that, even if some are prepared to totally exonerate him from blame for the previous year's relegation.

leetufc · Post by **leetufc** » 16 Apr 2015, 19:43

Rjc70 wrote:Yes, it is a good posting by lee, SW. But the bare financial side was really what I was getting at. Other factors such as a Club being in decline etc etc will always play a part, of course. I share lee's doubts about Hargreaves. We have nothing to go on but a very poor season, sadly. And he must take a lot of the rap for that, even if some are prepared to totally exonerate him from blame for the previous year's relegation.

I agree with your view with regard to finances. Pure financial terms first season down provides a massive advantage - I think we benefitted from this when we first went down, and were unlucky to not go up.

I don't exonerate CH from last season, but I do think he had difficult circumstances. Postponements early on dampened our ability to get a run of form together or benefit from the new man and then Labadie got himself suspended for the run in which deprived us of one of our best players.

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