Woking v Torquay TUE 24TH

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Post by SBP »

SBP wrote:torquay are so crap go away hargreves
My I apologise for this post, school boy error, left logged on and my son decides to post his feelings after the recent loss
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Post by Scott Brehaut »

forevertufc wrote: To a point Scott I agree with you, of course once a manager sends the players over the white line he can't always legislate for everything that's going to happen on the pitch, however, overall I do not agree with you, that's what game management and training sessions are for, we're 40 games into the season and our players are not fit period, and the same mistakes are being made over and over again, yes we're a conference club and players at this level have there limitations, but mate, some of these errors are so, so basic, and technical issues that can be improved on, defensive organisation, communication, clearly missing for the third goal, as Rendell was man-marked until the defender left him to go and header a ball that wasn't his to deal with.

Yes he's brought in defenders and some how succeeded in making things worse. The point has been made elsewhere, and something that hadn't escaped my notice, Chris Hargreaves after receiving stinging criticism for playing Gueguen at right back and Dawson at left, CH told us quite clearly Gueguen as a player is far happier playing right back and Dawson had previous at left back.

So please someone tell me why Pearce who's never played at full back before this season is played at left back, Gueguen who according to CH is happier at right back is playing at centre back, and Dawson who's had experience at left back is at right back. ok it would have meant having a right back at left back but a defence last night of; Gueguen, Pearce, Downes, Dawson would have had at least some balanced look about it.

I admire your steadfast defence of CH, but yet further evidence that CH has either developed Buckle's arrogance or is football managements answer to coco the clown.
I'm not blindly backing CH, don't get me wrong, and I freely admit he's made mistakes (who hasn't), and I'm probably being two faced in a way as I was so vociferous in my thoughts on his predecessor, however I guess it's simply because I so desperately want him to succeed.

I remember being there at Wembley when we got promoted, and the way CH was in that game - the reaction he had to his goal, the joy when he lifted the trophy (this is for you, he shouted).
It's because I enjoyed him and his passion as a player that I guess I'm being so vocal in my support of him, and why I'm trying to provide some balance to some of the comments on here.

Not picking out you in particular Dave, it's just you replied, so I answered

:)
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Post by eddyh »

I totally understand where you are coming from Scott and although it's difficult to defend CH right now I do think he deserves to be cut as much slack as possible as quite simply he earned that as a player for us. My view is that he has been dealt a shocking hand and isn't playing it particularly well, but, it is a shocking hand. There are some serious problems at Torquay at the moment but in honesty, he is not the biggest one in my view. I'm not sure anyone would do a great job in the current circumstances. The reality is that we have players like Pearce who just cannot wait to leave and is clearly not trying but gets picked because we literally have nobody else. We are playing players in front of him that no other team wanted and are playing for free so what standard do we really expect them to be?
We need to get this season over with and start again. Changing the manager every 5 minutes just does not work and that has been proven. CH may be making mistakes but hopefully he is learning from them and given the chance will improve. Only time will tell on that one.
I will always remember Paul Buckles head being demanded as we had a dreadful start in the season we ultimately got promoted.
Patience is very rare amongst football fans but sometimes it pays off. Exeter fans would have had Tisdale sacked 5 times by now but he rides it out and continues to deliver a team that performs. Maybe CH will never make it but I feel he deserves this summer to put his own stamp on things with hopefully a reasonable budget and then he can be judged properly.
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Post by Dave »

Scott, again in part I agree, I do not want anyone to get the wrong end of the stick here. Chris Hargreaves was extremely approachable during his time as a player, I spoke to him around the ground a few times myself and there's no doubt he's a really nice lad, the contribution Chris Hargreaves made to our football club as a player isn't in doubt, he is a player I'll will always hold dear to my heart as a fan, I, like most wanted him to succeed as manager.

I have kept quiet for a large part of the season, I've seen individual performances slide, team performances slide, individual and team discipline slide, we've CH make a number of poorly thought out public statements in my opinion, misleading reports about players earning £375 on average, ok, so what if they are, ask the manager of FC Halifax, Dover and other clubs how they would feel if they could offer £375 a week to their players, have a feeling they'd bite your hand off to have that sort of money to pay players with, could go on and on, have feeling I might bore people if I already haven't.

At the end of the day, Torquay United is supposed to a professional football club, we are not a charity, what are we supposed to do, continue watching the slide into oblivion, while all around us say, give CH more time he's a club legend.

There are some in football who make great coach's, there are others who make great managers, I firmly believe that even if the club gave CH £1 million to spend he will not succeed, I'm in no doubt CH would make a great first team/youth coach, but he will not go on to be a great manager, our club is running out of time fast, just look at the attendance figures, a change needs to made.

And don't doubt that if CH proves me wrong, I will say it and apologise, but that will not be proven until at least half way through next season.
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Post by eddyh »

On the issue of budget, it could be argued that other teams have similar or less BUT whether we like it or not location is a real problem. Other teams may get a relatively experienced player on a low wage because that player is settled in an area but we will basically only attract kids as there is no way that a half decent experienced pro will move a family down here on a low wage for one or two years. Unfortunately kids tend to be inconsistent and lack mental toughness when things start to go wrong ( recognise these traits this season?). Unfortunately for us our experienced heads have spent most of the season on the sick bed or simply biding thier time until they can leave us. Make no mistake, we are a poor side and probably 3 to 4 places below par based on the state of the club but to me that is more a reflection of the disgraceful neglect of our football club than the manager.
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Post by Scott Brehaut »

Eddy, I agree with your post in its entirety :)

Dave - yes, changes will need to be made if things don't improve, but I can't see us getting relegated this season and, whilst we won't be finishing anywhere near where I, and others, would have hoped, I would like to see CH still in place at the start of next season. If we start badly, or if there is any sign that the team hasn't improved, he will have to go.

Maybe it's just me being an idiot, clinging on to past glories with CH as a player, but I really do think he will come good next season and that we will be looking back on this seasons debacle as the blip that I so desperately hope it is.
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Post by Trojan 67 »

"Terry the Brucie endures forum flak." :rofl:

He's spot on about the missing hundreds, and I'm one of them.

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Post by Dave »

Location does play a part agreed, but in the conference money does as well, there is not such a thing as a completely free loan for a start, and some clubs in other areas face greater competition for players, as there are more clubs in that location, also take a look at Dover, is their location really that much better than ours, ok it is closer to London but you wouldn't to be driving there every other week, and trains are just such a pleasure, to arrive for a game at the crabble.

Our clubs off field problems are well documented and haven't helped CH and the team, but we're not 3-4 places below where we should be, we're currently 8 places below, our squad is a lot better than performances and results achieved, and for that you have to look at the manager.

As for players sitting on the sick bed biding their time, can anyone really blame them, really ? I don't blame CH for putting anyone on the transfer list, he was no doubt pressured from above to cut costs, Chris Hargreaves issued and very public statement, something along the lines of we've got players here earning to much money we've got to get them off our wage bill, completely and fatally flawed timing and judgement there.

The players he was referring to would have read that and known straight away they were one of the players, so are they going to turn to training and match day's knock their nuts of for the manager who's going to put them out of work come the seasons end, and in turn make him look good, maybe not regardless of whether they should have or not, that was plain stupidity.
Last edited by Dave on 25 Mar 2015, 22:52, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Dave »

Scott Brehaut wrote:Eddy, I agree with your post in its entirety :)

Dave - yes, changes will need to be made if things don't improve, but I can't see us getting relegated this season and, whilst we won't be finishing anywhere near where I, and others, would have hoped, I would like to see CH still in place at the start of next season. If we start badly, or if there is any sign that the team hasn't improved, he will have to go.

Maybe it's just me being an idiot, clinging on to past glories with CH as a player, but I really do think he will come good next season and that we will be looking back on this seasons debacle as the blip that I so desperately hope it is.
That's fine you are entitled to hold that opinion, and for the sake of the club, I hope your right.
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Post by Scott Brehaut »

Me too Dave, me too!!
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Post by brucie »

Yes your an idiot - at least you have fronted up after all this time and admitted what everyone else knows. How anyone can possibly defend this clown is beyond me.
He is a professional football manager. I could have told him that Rice wasn't fit for purpose at the start of the season. It was hardly rocket science that Fatboy was a disaster waiting to happen and look what happened there.
He is now banging on about wanting to keep Guegan for next season - jesus, he is useless as well.
Hargreaves uses every excuse in the book when we lose. Earlier on in the season it was the long journeys on the coach. Yet Braintree's part timers endure a six hour journey , in a clapped out charabang and beat us 5-1. Its pathetic.
One of two things is going to happen.

a) Hargreaves will be here next season if we don't find new owners and any of the current directors take charge. In that case we will have no money and Hargreaves will get us relegated.

b) Any self respecting new owners won't have Hargreaves as manager in a million years.
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Post by Scott Brehaut »

brucie wrote:Yes your an idiot - at least you have fronted up after all this time and admitted what everyone else knows.
It's "you're"
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Post by Southampton Gull »

Trojan 67 wrote:"Terry the Brucie endures forum flak." :rofl:

He's spot on about the missing hundreds, and I'm one of them.

:engflag:

Are you also staying away from the underachieving Argiggle too? ;-)
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Post by Neal »

I do agree with that. Guegen is not the answer, hes not strong enough, actually like all our defense except Downes.
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Post by Gullscorer »

Before we even think about changing the manager (again), there may be one or two others at the club who should either resign or admit their incompetences and do something about them, not to forget the improvements to be recommended by Kelvin Thomas, along with (hopefully) a new regime in charge with a more effective financial structure at the club before next season begins.

Kevin's point about Tisdale is a valid one, and I'm inclined towards Scott's view: CH, thus far, and unavoidably from the club's point of view, has been continually sent into battle with one hand tied behind his back, and should be given a new season under a new club regime before final judgement is made.

We should remember that fans are hardly in the best position to make judgement, not having full knowledge of the situation inside the club. All they can do is to express (hopefully, less ill-considered) opinions and vote with their feet.

And just as Tisdale has bounced back, along with the Grecian fair weather supporters, the same could yet happen at Plainmoor..
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