Valid points tommo. However and I can t say this is true, but was told by more than one person Alan Knill Believed he had a certain budget, have from a good person to know that Paul Benson was lined up to join by AK who had no choice to pull out of any deal ( again can't say this is true) running out of time Hawley and the loan in of Ball were in effect panic buys, we all agreed Chapell spelling as per his shirt , we all agreed was a good signing, many of those loans were free regards no wages or loan fee paid. But the one thing I can say for sure, only if the £100k used to sack AK was used to back him in the first place ( and I don't mean transfer fees paid out ) how different things could be now.tomogull wrote: The way I see it Forever, the Board allowed Knill to bring in players such as Hawley, Tonge, Harding, Benyon and Chappell on mega wages and then there was nothing left in the pot (apart from asking Thea to dip into her handbag once more) to bring in any more signings. The die was cast as they say. Money was found to allow Hargreaves to bring in Labadie, Cargill, Coulthirst and Goodwin on loan ..... oh, and Wilkinson (I wonder where he's playing this season ??). Maybe more could have been done to keep us up but I'm not sure what. Trouble was it was too late. Hargreaves didn't have enough time to rescue the club from the mire that Knill had left behind. You will argue that money was squandered on the Seale Hayne training ground and you could well be right but I think the root of the problem was money paid to Knill's signings who badly under-performed and this still applies this season to three of those players (Hawley gone of course and Chappell agreeing a more realistic contract).
Macclesfield Town v Torquay United Tuesday 25 November 2014
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How far do you want to go back? We'd be either League 1 or 2 now if Ling had been allowed to return. That's my take. It won't be others.
There have been some appauling decisions taken in the last couple of seasons. But this season we have lost so many points as a result of goalkeeping errors/decisions and yet we're still in touch with the play-off spots. We are crying out for change in that department. The keeper has no confidence - Seabright may have lost a bit in losing the shirt so soon after a promising debut, too - and the defence play as if they don't appear to have confidence in the keeper. Sounds like another of those situations tonight. I have viewed Rice as possessing a great attitude as a reserve keeper and still admire his professionalism and dedication to his role. But it's all become far too costly the way it's been.
Royal pointed to others who have made errors and, I have to say, I agreed with pretty much all of that as well. But where I have to differ is that I am finding it frustrating seeing points disappear on the back of a defensive error where the keeper has either played a part (eg: the Downes example royal gave/the early doors description of the goal tonight) or been the sole source of that costly error.
I do hope players don't take too much notice of what is written on the various forums, as they shouldn't. We're just tossing about opinions, often after poor results, after all.
There have been some appauling decisions taken in the last couple of seasons. But this season we have lost so many points as a result of goalkeeping errors/decisions and yet we're still in touch with the play-off spots. We are crying out for change in that department. The keeper has no confidence - Seabright may have lost a bit in losing the shirt so soon after a promising debut, too - and the defence play as if they don't appear to have confidence in the keeper. Sounds like another of those situations tonight. I have viewed Rice as possessing a great attitude as a reserve keeper and still admire his professionalism and dedication to his role. But it's all become far too costly the way it's been.
Royal pointed to others who have made errors and, I have to say, I agreed with pretty much all of that as well. But where I have to differ is that I am finding it frustrating seeing points disappear on the back of a defensive error where the keeper has either played a part (eg: the Downes example royal gave/the early doors description of the goal tonight) or been the sole source of that costly error.
I do hope players don't take too much notice of what is written on the various forums, as they shouldn't. We're just tossing about opinions, often after poor results, after all.
From the official match report:
"Hargreaves turned to the bench by introducing Elliot Benyon for Briscoe but the miserly home team were clearly comfortable protecting the lead,"
Well, what else do you expect? And to cop it all, there is a picture of Benyon falling over.
Brucie has a point about Ives - two games, two mistakes that have cost us two goals and turned a win into a draw and a draw into a defeat. He isn't ready perhaps. But the ever culpable Rice involved as well and as Matt pointed out, it is beyond a joke now. No money or not, you may as well play Aaron Downes in goal.
Too many players in too many positions who are not quite good enough, sadly.
Two years ago, we were doing ok. Not as well as the season before but solid and difficult to beat and we were not losing very many games, whilst being tucked just behind the play-off places in League 2.
Who could have predicted what a nightmare the next two years would become, when two months later, Ling went sick and the whole Knill/relegation/non-league oblivion nightmare became a reality?
"Hargreaves turned to the bench by introducing Elliot Benyon for Briscoe but the miserly home team were clearly comfortable protecting the lead,"
Well, what else do you expect? And to cop it all, there is a picture of Benyon falling over.
Brucie has a point about Ives - two games, two mistakes that have cost us two goals and turned a win into a draw and a draw into a defeat. He isn't ready perhaps. But the ever culpable Rice involved as well and as Matt pointed out, it is beyond a joke now. No money or not, you may as well play Aaron Downes in goal.
Too many players in too many positions who are not quite good enough, sadly.
Two years ago, we were doing ok. Not as well as the season before but solid and difficult to beat and we were not losing very many games, whilst being tucked just behind the play-off places in League 2.
Who could have predicted what a nightmare the next two years would become, when two months later, Ling went sick and the whole Knill/relegation/non-league oblivion nightmare became a reality?
It just goes to prove how Knill screwed this club up. I posted at the beginning of the season we wouldn't do anything while we had Harding, Benyon, Tonge, Hawley, Chappell on big wages for this league. We got rid of the worst one but still have 4 of them. You would get a damn good goalkeeper with their combined wages.
Yes losing the parachute will hurt BUT.......
Football is mainly about money, that's why Chelsea are the best team in the country, and why TUFC are in the conference. I said "mainly" because some managers can get more out of a set of lesser players than others. But the odd thing is those managers cant do it all the time at every club. They do it great at club a, move to club b and hey presto, they fail.
BUT.... If it is mainly about money, and if we can keep attendances around 2000 we will be one of the better off clubs in this league. Only BR and Grimsby are really better attended than us. There will also be the clubs with a wealthy owner, mmmmmm........ and my God they need to be wealthy, if they aren't they will do ok for 1 or 2 seasons then fall away.
Im also a bit fedup with the excuses, and I do basically agree with Bruce about Rice. BUT he is the goalkeeper right now and I don't want to destroy his confidence anymore and we end up losing 3-0 every week. That's the problem with fans and football, it can turn out to be a self fulfilling prophecy if you keep banging on about the same point all the time, we all know what the deficiencies are, don't need reminding every 5 bloody minutes!!
Yes losing the parachute will hurt BUT.......
Football is mainly about money, that's why Chelsea are the best team in the country, and why TUFC are in the conference. I said "mainly" because some managers can get more out of a set of lesser players than others. But the odd thing is those managers cant do it all the time at every club. They do it great at club a, move to club b and hey presto, they fail.
BUT.... If it is mainly about money, and if we can keep attendances around 2000 we will be one of the better off clubs in this league. Only BR and Grimsby are really better attended than us. There will also be the clubs with a wealthy owner, mmmmmm........ and my God they need to be wealthy, if they aren't they will do ok for 1 or 2 seasons then fall away.
Im also a bit fedup with the excuses, and I do basically agree with Bruce about Rice. BUT he is the goalkeeper right now and I don't want to destroy his confidence anymore and we end up losing 3-0 every week. That's the problem with fans and football, it can turn out to be a self fulfilling prophecy if you keep banging on about the same point all the time, we all know what the deficiencies are, don't need reminding every 5 bloody minutes!!
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I, a bit like Matt, can often take the role of club apologist and often think the criticism of some of the decisions and manager go too far. Also like Matt, I am now at the stage where Rice HAS to be removed from the team.
Last night showed the importance of having a GK. Not an outstanding GK, but just a solid average one. Taylor mad save after save and mopped up neatly. Rice on the other hand cost us again. If you don't take my word for it listen to our esteemed colleague David Thomas in the match repport:
"Martin Rice came to catch a Scott Barrow cross, only for the ball to sail over his head"
Unfortunately young Ives hasn't played enough games to learn that you cannot trust rice to do the job you expect and got caught out. He'll learn like the rest of them have to keep defending until he has it in his hands. Last night, bar the first 15 minutes, Macclesfield weren't testing us that much. At worst we should have left with a solid 0-0 to set us up for Saturday, instead our own player has crocked us.
The one major Hargreaves decision I disagree with most was bringing rice back in for seabright. In the two games he played he made less errors than rice does in a game and pulled off some equally fine saves. It surely can't be because he let in the nicholson goal against kiddy? I've seen world class goalkeepers fall for the same thing; you can't move until it's past the last man and then it's too late. His all round handling and command of his area was far better than Martin' though.
Also, those saying season over:get a grip! 4 points off the playoffs, a game in hand on a good lot of teams above us (2 on some) and after Barnet we will not have a tougher run of games this season.
It was always going to be up and down with a young squad. When we go back to playing the bottom half of the table regularly I'm confident we have enough ability to string a few wins together. If we drop rice.
Last night showed the importance of having a GK. Not an outstanding GK, but just a solid average one. Taylor mad save after save and mopped up neatly. Rice on the other hand cost us again. If you don't take my word for it listen to our esteemed colleague David Thomas in the match repport:
"Martin Rice came to catch a Scott Barrow cross, only for the ball to sail over his head"
Unfortunately young Ives hasn't played enough games to learn that you cannot trust rice to do the job you expect and got caught out. He'll learn like the rest of them have to keep defending until he has it in his hands. Last night, bar the first 15 minutes, Macclesfield weren't testing us that much. At worst we should have left with a solid 0-0 to set us up for Saturday, instead our own player has crocked us.
The one major Hargreaves decision I disagree with most was bringing rice back in for seabright. In the two games he played he made less errors than rice does in a game and pulled off some equally fine saves. It surely can't be because he let in the nicholson goal against kiddy? I've seen world class goalkeepers fall for the same thing; you can't move until it's past the last man and then it's too late. His all round handling and command of his area was far better than Martin' though.
Also, those saying season over:get a grip! 4 points off the playoffs, a game in hand on a good lot of teams above us (2 on some) and after Barnet we will not have a tougher run of games this season.
It was always going to be up and down with a young squad. When we go back to playing the bottom half of the table regularly I'm confident we have enough ability to string a few wins together. If we drop rice.
The biggest error that Hargreaves made was installing Rice as our number one keeper when he was never ever going to be up to it.
Whether it was Rices fault or Ives fault for the goal last night probably matters not in the end really. We were favourites to win last night for a reason even though Macclesfield are higher up and doing better than us
That reason was Macclesfield are a part time club with resources more limited than us. Hargreaves cannot peddle the "bigger budget" excuse everytime.
But we are a full time club with players such as Briscoe who can only apparently last half a game. That is just a ludicrous situation.
If part time clubs can play three games a week and still win games then really we should be taking a long hard look at ourselves.
Apparently our wingers Cameron and Ajala were "tired" in the second half last night. Yet we didn't have a winger on the bench. Chappell has disappeared again and just as Thompson breaks into the first team he is farmed out to Truro.
I appreciate that O'Archie is raw but he looked a proper handful during our winning run. Why is it then he now appears to be worse than useless?
With a rested Eastleigh to play on Saturday and a nightmare trip to Dover to follow it could be season over by this time next week.
Whether it was Rices fault or Ives fault for the goal last night probably matters not in the end really. We were favourites to win last night for a reason even though Macclesfield are higher up and doing better than us
That reason was Macclesfield are a part time club with resources more limited than us. Hargreaves cannot peddle the "bigger budget" excuse everytime.
But we are a full time club with players such as Briscoe who can only apparently last half a game. That is just a ludicrous situation.
If part time clubs can play three games a week and still win games then really we should be taking a long hard look at ourselves.
Apparently our wingers Cameron and Ajala were "tired" in the second half last night. Yet we didn't have a winger on the bench. Chappell has disappeared again and just as Thompson breaks into the first team he is farmed out to Truro.
I appreciate that O'Archie is raw but he looked a proper handful during our winning run. Why is it then he now appears to be worse than useless?
With a rested Eastleigh to play on Saturday and a nightmare trip to Dover to follow it could be season over by this time next week.
Kit Robin - You are right in a way. As soon as we conceded a cheap goal last night it was going to be game over. It alters the complexion of the game completely. Whilst we might have came away with a point if it hadn't happened we may equally have ended up winning it as well.
Neal - but if you know what is going to happen when you are sat at home then surely its time for the manager to do something to address the situation.
My son was at the game - at half time he reckoned that they wouldn't score and if we scored first in the second half we would definately win.
I told him that we would probably have the majority of the play in the second half, their keeper would pull off a good save or two, but Rice would make an error and we would lose 1-0.
I also posted the same thing on here.
Really its not a case of happy to be proved right - it just makes it all the more depressing when the blindingly obvious happens game after game.
Neal - but if you know what is going to happen when you are sat at home then surely its time for the manager to do something to address the situation.
My son was at the game - at half time he reckoned that they wouldn't score and if we scored first in the second half we would definately win.
I told him that we would probably have the majority of the play in the second half, their keeper would pull off a good save or two, but Rice would make an error and we would lose 1-0.
I also posted the same thing on here.
Really its not a case of happy to be proved right - it just makes it all the more depressing when the blindingly obvious happens game after game.
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bixieupnorth
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i've often dreamt of a reality show where they tv companies pay a big name ex manager to drop down to a small club like ours and really see how good a manager they are when they just have to get on with it, no mega money wish list, no posse of assisants, coaches, scouts, nutritionists etc, just get given a squad of half decent players and coach them to within an inch of their lives.
would any manager be prepared to do it, and would it make any difference to our squad, or is the old adage "you cant polish shit" too true
it'll never happend as all of the out of work managers dont really need to money any more, but i would really love to see it. theres been reality shows on about every different subject, but save for the brendan rodgers series and that one shadwoing harry bassets blades in the 80s i cant think of many more
could it be a goer??
would any manager be prepared to do it, and would it make any difference to our squad, or is the old adage "you cant polish shit" too true
it'll never happend as all of the out of work managers dont really need to money any more, but i would really love to see it. theres been reality shows on about every different subject, but save for the brendan rodgers series and that one shadwoing harry bassets blades in the 80s i cant think of many more
could it be a goer??
still keeping the faith
No but take a look at Macclefield's manager - doing a far better job than Hargreaves on less than our resources.
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SuperNickyWroe
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we wont get anywhere with CH in charge.brucie wrote:No but take a look at Macclefield's manager - doing a far better job than Hargreaves on less than our resources.
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But..... we could sack CH, pay him off, recruit the Macclesfield Manager (if he wanted to come) and probably have to pay him more. AND AFTER ALL THAT, for whatever reason he could be an absolute flop, and we end up at the bottom. And in further debt.... that's football 
Look at Alan Pardew, they were calling for his blood 4 weeks ago, it got really nasty. and look at them now... "Its a funny old game"
Look at Alan Pardew, they were calling for his blood 4 weeks ago, it got really nasty. and look at them now... "Its a funny old game"
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Sunnysideup
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He was bookies favourite for somewhere else a couple of weeks ago.OllieGull wrote:Slightly off topic but has anyone seen who the favourite for the Cheltenham manager is... only Paul Buckle!
Apathy Rules...............it's ok though, nobody's that fussed about it........
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Gullscorer
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I said in my opening post that I thought a draw would be a good result, but if we can avoid any defensive errors and play a good passing game, then a win is certainly a possibility. Sadly we were unable to break through the second best defence in the top twelve teams, and if as Brucie says Macclesfield are mainly part-timers and our own players cannot last a whole game, then we need to look at where we may be going wrong in training and preparation for games. And, as usual, a defensive error lost us the points.
A few games ago, CH did drop Ricey for a very short period, and if he'd been able to put an experienced half-decent keeper in his place I'm sure he would have done. CH knows where the team needs to improve, and I'm sure he's working on the problem, but as always the basic problem is money. He's achieved wonders since last season to get us where we are now, and we are still in a position to challenge the other top teams in the second half of the season, and not yet half-way through the season.
Remember that his is Hargreaves' squad now, not Knill's. The players, individually and collectively, want to improve and achieve, there's a good team spirit, and with plenty of games still to be played, the play-offs are certainly achievable. Looking forward to an interesting New Year.
A few games ago, CH did drop Ricey for a very short period, and if he'd been able to put an experienced half-decent keeper in his place I'm sure he would have done. CH knows where the team needs to improve, and I'm sure he's working on the problem, but as always the basic problem is money. He's achieved wonders since last season to get us where we are now, and we are still in a position to challenge the other top teams in the second half of the season, and not yet half-way through the season.
Remember that his is Hargreaves' squad now, not Knill's. The players, individually and collectively, want to improve and achieve, there's a good team spirit, and with plenty of games still to be played, the play-offs are certainly achievable. Looking forward to an interesting New Year.
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Behind-the-Gulls
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Will be reunited with Shaun North if its true.OllieGull wrote:Slightly off topic but has anyone seen who the favourite for the Cheltenham manager is... only Paul Buckle!
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