TUFC v Burnley

[highweekgull]

I wasn't at the game either but a few points

Ellis not playing well - I am sad to hear that because he is a class player who should be better. He never got coached or used properly by Buckle (he should have been playing alongside Woods a few years ago and then he would have learnt) and if you dont get a run in the team he will look lost. I just hope that Taylor coaches him well and that he listens and also that Saah does talk to him through the game - cos that could be a great pairing. We all know Robbo's weaknesses - fouling, grabbing players (ffs stop it you idiot) and letting the ball bounce when he shouldn't - but unless the above happens he might be the choice but I hope he sorts his issues too

Rice - why is he nervous Brucie? Because the boo boys like you are ready to jump on him whenever he makes a mistake - i don't advocate blindly backing every player but can we please support them when they do well, understand when they make a genuine mistake and only have a go when they do something they really shouldn't (like Bevan flapping on his 6 yard box or standing still and not saying a word so the centre halfs had to head it out for a corner)

[Fonda]

Right... and Eunan is different class to Ellis, what's your point?

In the nicest possible way, it is largely irrelevant that one player is better than another, it doesn't make the lesser players utterly hopeless. It doesn't help that you're trying to compare a defender with a striker and a 'keeper.

Matt.

Ah. My turn to be ‘spoken down to’ by Matt the Moderator. If you bothered to read, I wasn’t comparing him to a ‘keeper’ and a ‘striker’, I was comparing him (a popular player) to the other two (who aren’t fans favourites) – their relative positions are irrelevant. Come on, you’re an intelligent fellow, you can see the point of the post.

In basic terms (as it’s evidently so difficult), he makes mistakes it gets overlooked and people still clamour for his selection. Certain others make mistakes and people clamour for their public execution.

[Bigman]

I may be wrong, but I think Brucie's implication was that he's happier with Ellis as our central defensive cover than he is with Rice as our goalkeeping cover and McPhee as our striking (?) cover, which (admittedly based on their previous stints at the club) I would agree with. I don't however agree that they're both useless, and don't think such opinions should be formed on anything during pre season. This is the time to get nerves and errors out of their game. Until they start making mistakes that cost us points I think we should go easy on the criticism - keep things in perspective, as we seem to be doing with Howe's scoring exploits. If Rice did make a mistake (which is evidently open to debate) for now it should be a case of "don't do that again" rather than "oh no, he did it again".

As for Ellis vs Robertson, I was surprised when Ellis was kept out of the team for so long last season, especially given Robertson can play right back and we had Manse there. Find it difficult to assess how good he's been recently given I don't think I've seen him play since Crewe last year when he scored twice, but I think both are good, both could improve, and I hope the presence of the other forces whoever's in the starting berth to play out of their socks.

[Richinns]

I am far more worried about the 1st choice backups of Ellis and Lathrope than I am of Rice.

Like many have stated - Rice will not play unless he is needed for a 1 off game circumstance (injury or red card). I don't understand why you keep banging on about him involved in the Rovers game brucie because at best he will warm the bench unless very unlikely incidents occur. There is no point throwing money to cover very unlikely incidents when we can use the limited money we have better elsewhere.
Ellis and Lathrope will be needed through the course of a season. Luckily we have other choices such as LRT (who can cover the CB role) and Oastler (who can cover the defensive midfielder role) but do we really want to move these people out of the best positions to achieve this?

Unfortunate for Ling that these are people he has inherited and they are not his choices. They can improve but how long have we been saying this about Ellis for?

[Southampton Gull]

Rich, Mansell allowed the guy to run straight past him, that left Lathrope to chase back, never getting there. Ellis came out, got done easily and the finish was sublime. Not much that Rice could do a out it, the guy had time to beat him with ease, it was a quality piece of play.

For those looking to use this game to beat up on players a la brucie, your opinions don't really count if you weren't there. If Mav states Rice was at fault I can respect his opinion but my view is the opposition player should have been stopped much earlier.

It's no surprise to me that Branston preferred Robbo, for all his faults he knows how to get the right side of an attacker, Ellis doesn't. No-brainer for me.

If we'd started with the same eleven that started v Exeter it would have been a different game but surely this is exactly what pre-season is all about, trying out different players, pairings and formations. I'm very optimistic that we have enough about us to have a good season. No pessimism from me at all.

[ferrarilover]

Ah. My turn to be ‘spoken down to’ by Matt the Moderator. If you bothered to read, I wasn’t comparing him to a ‘keeper’ and a ‘striker’, I was comparing him (a popular player) to the other two (who aren’t fans favourites) – their relative positions are irrelevant. Come on, you’re an intelligent fellow, you can see the point of the post.

In basic terms (as it’s evidently so difficult), he makes mistakes it gets overlooked and people still clamour for his selection. Certain others make mistakes and people clamour for their public execution.

I was posting in reply to Brucie, who made a direct comparison between Ellis and the others mentioned when he used the phrase "Ellis is different class to Rice and McPhee". Perhaps if you spent more time paying attention to the content of my posts, rather than finding fault with the way I go about things, you'd have realised this, and that I was, in fact, backing up your point.

Matt.

[Fonda]

I was posting in reply to Brucie, who made a direct comparison between Ellis and the others mentioned when he used the phrase "Ellis is different class to Rice and McPhee". Perhaps if you spent more time paying attention to the content of my posts, rather than finding fault with the way I go about things, you'd have realised this, and that I was, in fact, backing up your point.

Matt.

I don't go out of my way to find fault with anything. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

[WHG]

Having watched the match unlike alot of the posters who have expressed an opinion, my view, which I am sure most of you will disagree with, is:
1. Rice
He was at fault for the second goal. Although it was a good shot, he was not unsighted as some might think, he was slightly out of position and much too slow getting down. Although to be fair to him if Lathrope had done his job properly there would have been no shot.
Also for the third goal, although unlucky, he was too slow getting down to save it in the first place.
Getting down to good low shots is his main weakness IMO. That said I am more than happy to have him as a backup. His shot stopping is ok and his distribution is also better then Bevan.
If he is called upon due to injury he will be able to do a decent job for the team in the very short term. There are not many strikers in League 2 who can hit good accurate shots into the bottom corner.
2. Ellis
Everyone knows that Ellis could be a very decent centre half, his biggest problem from the games I have seen him in is the fact that if he makes a mistake early in the game he seems to go to pot.
Against Burnley he completely misjudged a header and missed the ball by miles then a few minutes later he slipped when going to clear a ball. After this his game went to pot, whether this is because he then tries too hard to make amends or something else I don’t know.
I do know that this seems to be a recurrent theme in his games that I have seen. Early mistake he’s garbage no mistake he often puts in a MOM performance.
Another thing the game showed was that if O’Kane gets injured or goes off the boil which most players do at some time in the season, then we will be in serious problems against any teams with a decent midfield.
Overall I have been impressed with the team’s performances in the PSFs and looking forward to the start of the season. Of course confidence plays an important part in the game and if we get off to a shaky start in our first few games it could be a long season ahead as young player’s heads often drop a lot quicker than more seasoned pros.
Of course this is all just my opinion and most will see things from a completely different perspective but what the hey who cares it’s only a fans forum.

[ferrarilover]

Don't want to quote the whole thing, but regards your point about midfields and O'Kane, I'd suggest we need not worry. Even the best midfield in this division (sadly, that might belong to our friends from Brizzle) won't be as good at that which was fielded on Saturday, so, while seeing what you mean, I'd not be overly fussed about this, since we simply won't be playing guys of that calibre in the League.

Matt.

Shane, you donut, shall we go back to being thinly veiled polar opposites now? :~D

[JamieE]

I personally feel Robbo is our most under-rated player. Our defence has been solid over the last season and a half and whether Robbo has been at right back or centre half he's been integral to it. Since being moved back into centre half he has been very good and at the end of last season he was magnificent. He may have a slight tendancy to let the ball bounce or tug a shirt but he is rarely punished for these traits. Ellis endears himself to the fans because of his aggressive approach but he is clumsy and makes mistakes. Robbo reads the game very well and should be one of the first names on the teamsheet.

[tommyg]

What a barmy thread.

Jamie makes a good point about Ellis endearing himself to the fans because of his aggressive approach. The reason he's more popular in the terraces than Robertson is likely because he is a more attacking, all-action defender. He's the type that won't think twice about running through a brick wall and so some supporters will be more forgiving when he makes a mistake.

Robertson is only two years older but he's a far more mature centre-back and has been a very solid performer. At present, he deserves to be in the side. But if you were to ask me which of the two will be playing at a higher level in five years time, I would put my eggs in Ellis' basket. He's clearly a talented individual - but he needs fine tuning. Hopefully defensive co-ordinator Taylor can have a positive impact on his career because there's nothing more frustrating than watching a player not fulfill his potential.

[Fonda]

Shane, you donut, shall we go back to being thinly veiled polar opposites now? :~D

Yeah fair enough, lets do that.

[Trojan 67]

I was there, for 80 minutes (missed the first 10 and the first goal), so my viewpoint is valid.

We got what we haven't had so far - the run around from a better footballing team. Precisely what we needed.

Then there's Rene Howe's zat for a cracker ! Hit the bar, bounced down, went back up and hit the bar again and finally nestled in the net.

It was over the line first time off the bar.